Dr. Mark Mattes teaches at Grand View University in Iowa. His latest book is Martin Luther's Theology of Beauty. In this episode, we talk about the kenotic love of Christ poured out upon the Cross as the definition of Beauty and the beautiful for the Christian life. Referring to his recent essay in the book The Necessary Distinction, we also discuss how Wesleyans like us Crackers can reconcile 'perfection' with Martin's 'simul.'