In this episode we untangle two "buzz words" in leadership today: systems thinking and wicked problems. I am joined by my friend and colleague Dr. Caitlin Bletscher who is a Scholarly Assistant Professor at Washington State University. Caitlin and I discuss a variety of issues including racism, COVID-19 and the many other systems we live in, how they are intertwined with one another, and what we as change agents (leaders!) can do to fix and dismantle them!