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The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell...
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The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell books. The title is a nod to the famous (potentially misattributed) Hemingway quote: “There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed.” Sign up for The Bleeders companion Substack! https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
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The Bleeders: about book writing & publishing
The Bleeders: about book writing & publishing
Courtney KocakEpisodes & Posts
Episodes
Posts
Transcribed
28 SEP 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Brad Listi, author of https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781632461360, host of the long-running https://www.otherppl.com/ podcast, and founder of the new literary learning platform Deep Dive. After decades in the business, Brad has a delightfully candid perspective on what it takes to build a writing career these days—and why talent and hard work are only part of the equation.
In this episode, Brad takes us through his publishing journey, from his MFA and selling his debut novel in his twenties to launching the influential literary community The Nervous Breakdown, building an audience through podcasting, and writing his latest book, Be Brief and Tell Them Everything. We get into rejection, the myth that platform automatically translates into book sales, and the financial realities of being a writer.
Plus, Brad shares what 1,000 author interviews have taught him, why reading should be part of the job, and his unfiltered advice for writers trying to get published.
Subscribe to https://bradlisti.substack.com/welcome and listen to the https://www.otherppl.com/ podcast. Follow him on https://www.instagram.com/otherppl.podcast/ @otherppl.podcast, and buy your copy of Be Brief and Tell Them Everything on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781632461360, https://amzn.to/4dIUFsz, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
13 AUG 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is novelist and essayist Emily J. Smith, author of the debut novel https://amzn.to/4fQRBw4. After years of writing, rewriting, and more than 100 agent rejections across two novels, Emily finally found the agent who understood her vision—and sold her debut to a Big Five publisher within weeks.
In this episode, Emily pulls back the curtain on her long road to publication, including why she abandoned her first novel, what she learned from agent feedback, and how embracing plot and suspense helped her break into publishing without sacrificing her literary ambitions. We get into working with a developmental editor, landing a Big Five deal, advances and rights, the emotional minefield of cover design, and what publishers actually do—and don’t do—for debut authors. Emily also shares the realities of funding your own book tour and publicity, building a platform when you hate social media, growing her Substack, and the personalized outreach that helped generate press and word of mouth.
Plus, Emily reflects on the widening gap between blockbuster books and smaller deals, why getting a traditional book deal can feel more like a foot in the door than a guarantee of support, and the publishing lesson she wishes she’d learned sooner.
Subscribe to Emily's Substack https://emjsmith.substack.com/welcome. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/emjsmith/ @emjsmith, and buy your copy of Nothing Serious on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9780063385849, https://amzn.to/4x0V7Kq, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2027-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
8 JUL 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is author, writing coach, and sobriety expert Tawny Lara, the author of https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781683693635.
In this episode, Tawny pulls back the curtain on her publishing journey—from blogging and viral essays to finding an agent, switching from memoir to more journalistic nonfiction, completely rewriting her proposal, and ultimately selling her book. We get into querying, indie publishing vs. the Big Five, advances, audiobooks, and DIY book publicity. She also shares why every writer needs a newsletter, how she built an effective Substack strategy, the publicity tactics that landed her major media coverage, and why tapping into your existing network is often more powerful than chasing social media algorithms.
Plus, Tawny explains how she sold a sobriety card deck to Penguin Random House, why rejection is an essential part of every publishing career, and the simple writing advice that transformed her creative practice.
Subscribe to Tawny's Substack https://tawnylara.substack.com/welcome. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/tawnymlara/ @tawnymlara, and buy your copy of Dry Humping on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781683693635, https://amzn.to/3RonUcc, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:
- https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/midsummerpitchparty: https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/midsummerpitchparty
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
Transcribed
8 MAY 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is publishing expert, author, and newsletter pioneer Jane Friedman, a 25+ year industry veteran and the author of https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9780226838656. She talks candidly about how the publishing industry has transformed in the creator economy era—and why building a sustainable writing career today requires far more than just landing a book deal.
In this episode, Jane breaks down the transformative shifts reshaping publishing, from the rise of Substack, TikTok, and direct-to-reader marketing to the growing legitimacy of self-publishing and hybrid publishing models. We get into why entrepreneurial authors are thriving, how video platforms are driving book sales in surprising ways, and why newsletters and email lists remain one of the most powerful tools for writers. We also talk about platform building, ownership and rights, bestseller lists, audiobook strategy, and how today’s authors are thinking differently about control, distribution, and long-term career sustainability.
Plus, Jane shares her nuanced take on AI’s growing role in publishing—from the ethical outrage surrounding copyrighted training data to the practical ways writers are already using AI for research, brainstorming, and marketing support, and why writers who completely ignore AI may eventually put themselves at a disadvantage.
Subscribe to Jane's industry newsletter https://janefriedman.com/the-bottom-line-janes-publishing-industry-newsletter/. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/janefriedman/ @janefriedman, and buy your copy of The Business of Being a Writer on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9780226838656, https://amzn.to/49zvYwu, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
10 APR 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Antonia Crane, author, academic, and one of my all-time favorite memoirists. In this special episode, the tables are turned as Antonia interviews me about my debut memoir https://amzn.to/4snxAA8, and we get into what it actually takes to write a book over 15 years and finally share it with the world.
We talk about the long, nonlinear road from first essay to finished memoir, including incubators with Chloe Caldwell, revising through many drafts, and why sometimes you have to write an entire version of a book just to figure out what it isn’t. We also get into structure, how trusting your gut can be more important than following industry expectations, the difference between factual accuracy and emotional truth, the challenge of fact-checking your own life, and why writing about the past often means confronting the parts you’ve tried hardest to forget. We discuss “dark teachers,” perfectionism, and the complicated process of making meaning out of tough experiences like addiction, abusive relationships, and sexual trauma.
Plus, we get into sex work, feminism, the male gaze, and the cultural forces shaping https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541—from growing up in small-town Minnesota to chasing Hollywood dreams and encountering its underbelly.
Subscribe to Antonia's Substack https://antoniacrane.substack.com/welcome. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/antoniacrane/ @antoniacrane, and buy your copy of her amazing memoir Spent on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781942600862, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026: https://writingworkshops.com/products/memoir-in-essays-incubator-nonfiction-writing-workshop-online-june-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
20 MAR 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Brooke Warner, publisher of https://shewritespress.com/, author of https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781631526701, renowned former editor at Seal Press, and a 25-year publishing industry veteran. She talks candidly about how the industry has evolved, why traditional publishing is no longer the only path, and what it really takes to build a writing career today.
In this episode, Brooke breaks down the current publishing landscape across every lane: traditional, hybrid, and self-publishing—and why more authors are thinking beyond the Big Five. She shares how hybrid publishing emerged as a “third way,” its roots in co-publishing, and why entrepreneurial authors actually prefer it. We also get into the catch-22 of platform building and what actually sells books now, from the rise of podcasts, Substack, and TikTok to the enduring power of email lists (and why social media doesn’t convert the way you think it does).
Brooke also dishes on PR, Amazon’s outsized—and often unfair—influence, and the behind-the-scenes realities of book distribution. Plus, we talk about AI’s growing presence in manuscript submissions, how publishers can spot it, and what it means for the future of writing.
Subscribe to Brooke's Substack https://brookewarner.substack.com/welcome. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/brooke_warner/ @brooke_warner, and buy your copy of Write On, Sisters! on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781631526701, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
Preorder 10 copies of Girl Gone Wild to join The Confessional—a live memoir writing residency during the launch of Girl Gone Wild. For more details, visit https://www.courtneykocak.com/teaching.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
18 MAR 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today the tables are turned—host Courtney Kocak sits down with Trio House Press junior editor Lili Gourley to talk about her debut memoir Girl Gone Wild.
Girl Gone Wild is a coming-of-age tale of ambition, delusion, drugs, sex, and misogyny... including selling T-shirts on the Girls Gone Wild bus.
This special episode is a behind-the-scenes look at the book’s 15-year journey from first essay to publication, the revision process, how the Girls Gone Wild tour became the title essay, substance abuse, the writers who influenced her journey, how memoir can literally heal you, and, most importantly, what I hope you get from reading it.
Get your copy of Girl Gone Wild from https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541 or https://amzn.to/3M7EYR5.
Preorder 10 copies of Girl Gone Wild to join The Confessional—a live memoir writing residency during the launch of Girl Gone Wild. For more details, visit https://www.courtneykocak.com/teaching.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
17 FEB 2026 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Courtney Maum—novelist, memoirist, and author of Before and After the Book Deal—and she talks candidly about the reality of a writing career, the myth of the breakout book, and why longevity matters more than literary hype.In this episode, Courtney breaks down what publishing actually looks like across every lane: Big Five launches with national tours, indie presses that nurture your inner “art witch,” and self-publishing born out of necessity. She shares the story behind the book that almost never happened—and how the lowest advance of her career became the one that defined her platform—plus why the industry now expects authors to function as marketers, publicists, event planners, and content creators all at once.We also discuss building an audience in the newsletter era, the limits of social media, and why “a thousand true fans” is a better goal than virality. Courtney explains how writers can protect their mental health in a system built on comparison, what’s actually changed since 2020 (AI, proposals, platform pressure), and why readers—not gatekeepers—ultimately determine a book’s shelf life. This conversation is essential listening for any writer trying to build a sustainable creative career in today’s publishing landscape.
Preorder Courtney Maum's latest book https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/courtney-maum/alan-opts-out/9780316599108/ and preorder Courtney Kocak's debut memoir https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781949487541.
Subscribe to Courtney Maum's Substack https://courtneymaum.substack.com/welcome. Follow her on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cbmaum/, and buy your copy of Before and After the Book Deal on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781948226400, or wherever books are sold!
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
Transcribed
28 DEC 2025 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Sari Botton, writer, editor, and publisher of the Substack hits Oldster and Memoir Land, joining The Bleeders to talk candidly about her unconventional path through publishing, why she ultimately chose ownership, longevity, and creative control over chasing traditional industry validation, and how she built a thriving ecosystem around her work.
In this episode, Sari breaks down what it really takes to build a sustainable writing and publishing career outside the gatekeepers. She shares how she launched bestselling anthologies like Goodbye to All That and Never Can Say Goodbye after being repeatedly told “you can’t do that,” what it was like working at Longreads during a pivotal moment in digital publishing, and why Substack ultimately gave her the freedom she’d been seeking all along.
We also dig into her debut memoir And You May Find Yourself... and the realities of publishing creative nonfiction, including the emotional and ethical challenges of writing about real people, the importance of blurring and revision, and why small presses—and even self-publishing—can sometimes offer more protection and creative freedom than major publishers. This conversation is a must-listen for writers questioning what success in publishing actually looks like in the creator economy.
Subscribe to Sari’s Substacks https://oldster.substack.com/welcome, https://memoirland.substack.com/welcome, and https://adventuresinjournalism.substack.com/welcome Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/saribotton/ @saribotton, and buy your copy of And You May Find Yourself... on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781942762997, or wherever books are sold!
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026 (use code BLEEDERS for $100 off): https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
Transcribed
21 DEC 2025 · Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is author and entrepreneur Ali Kriegsman, joining The Bleeders to talk candidly about her path through traditional publishing, burnout, rejection—and ultimately choosing to self-publish her debut novel "The Raise" on her own terms.
In this episode, Ali breaks down what it really took to launch a book without a traditional publisher: owning 100% of her rights, deciding not to invest in PR, building a highly visual TikTok-driven campaign, and treating herself as the CEO of her own book launch—and it WORKED. Ali even earned the Reese's Book Club stamp of approval!
Ali opens up about the ego hit of not selling her novel on submission, the mindset shift required to embrace self-publishing, and how redefining success helped her rebuild confidence in her creative work. We also dig into the realities of book marketing, the trade-offs between traditional and self-publishing, genre confusion, rights ownership, audiobook decisions, and why writers have to decide what they’re optimizing for—whether that’s bestseller lists, longevity, or adaptation potential.
Subscribe to Ali’s Substack https://alikriegsman.substack.com/welcome, follow her on https://www.instagram.com/alikriegs/ @alikriegs, and buy your copy of The Raise on https://bookshop.org/a/85623/9781662962493, https://amzn.to/4qcBsDw, or wherever books are sold!
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on https://www.instagram.com/courtneykocak/ and https://bsky.app/profile/courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website https://courtneykocak.com/links.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-make-2026-your-best-writing-year-yet-manifest-your-writing-goals-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026 (use code BLEEDERS for $100 off): https://www.courtneykocak.com/store/new-years-newsletter-pitch-party-extravaganza-2026
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-podcast-workshop-courtney-kocak
- https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak: https://writingworkshops.com/products/edit-elevate-revision-intensive-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell...
show more
The Bleeders is a podcast (and support group!) about book writing and publishing. Transparent conversations with authors, agents, and people in the publishing industry about how to write and sell books. The title is a nod to the famous (potentially misattributed) Hemingway quote: “There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed.” Sign up for The Bleeders companion Substack! https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
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Information
| Author | Courtney Kocak |
| Organization | Courtney Kocak |
| Categories | Books |
| Website | www.bleeders.co |
| hello@courtneykocak.com |
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