5 DEC 2020 · Listeners know today’s guest well. She’s Gina Riley, the co-host of this podcast. Gina is an educational psychologist, a Clinical Professor in the Adolescent Special Education Program at CUNY – Hunter College and, of course, she has a big interest in unschooling, even having written a book called Unschooling: Learning Beyond the Classroom. Today, we’re talking about a 2018 study she did, appropriately titled Exploring Unschoolers Experiences Learning to Read, where she analyzes the experiences of 28 unschoolers. What were the similarities and differences, and what can teachers and parents learn from these experiences? Stay tuned for a really informative discussion. 6:32 - Learning to read in a very ‘schooled’ world: “I think there is a lot of pressure from the outside world regarding learning to read.” 11:31 - Is there a critical period by which kids should start learning to read? “It was a really interesting finding that I’m always surprised at.” 17:19 - Intrinsic motivation and learning to read: “I have my books and I can read any of those that I want.” 24;27 - Isn’t reading too complex to learn without instruction?: ”I love these programs for kids who need them, but it’s not all knowing what a consonant and a vowel is.” 29:00 - What can conventional school teachers (and parents) learn from how unschoolers learn to read?: “We don’t need kids to always learn grade or age-based books.” 34:22 - What can parents and families learn from unschoolers’ experience learning to read?: “The more other people see things are enjoyable, the more apt they are to do them themselves.”

17 NOV 2020 · On this episode, Gina interviews the show's co-host, Kevin Currie-Knight, about his experience with self-directed learning. Kevin is a professor in East Carolina University's College of Education where he teaches future teachers. But he teaches in a way that leans heavily on self-directed learning where students have control over what to learn, how to learn it, and even how to evaluate themselves. He's written a recent article about his experience teaching this way, and here is a fantastic conversation about it! 1:19 - Kevin’s self-directed college course: “At various spots along the way, my thinking started changing to include a lot more emphasis on self-directed education.” 9:20 - What types of projects do students do?: “It’s just so all over the map.” 17:17 - What motivates students? What doesn’t?: “I’ve seen in my own classroom the power of intrinsic motivation.” 25:13 - The difficulty of giving up instructional control: “Set up the rules for the class, monitor everything, but you don’t have to be the center of it.” 31:32 - What do students have to say about this approach?: “Every semester, I still get a few comments which are like ‘I’m confused as to what this is.’”

10 OCT 2020 · In this episode, we talk to Xaq Rzetelny. Xaq is a grown unschooler, science writer, and communicator of science focusing on astrophysics. He's also been a radio host and most recently, a performer at Liberty Science Center's Jennifer Chalsty Planetarium, the largest in the Western Hemisphere. Gina and Kevin sat down with Xaq to talk about the transition from unschooling to college to career, how unschooling and college led to an interest in the sciences, and much more. Enjoy the episode. 1:37 - Transition from Unschooling to college: “My first day, I’m sitting there in my seat in class in terror.” 10:20 - Social Life as an Unschooled Kid (and in College): “I did have friends outside of college so if I wanted to hang out with somebody… I am going to hang out with my friends outside of college.” 13:51 - How did Xaq Develop an Interest in Science? “That course blew my mind. It just answered so many of the questions.” 18:03 - Learning the Torturous Subject of Math: “I skipped all of that, and I had to take one semester struggling with math and then I got back on track and I was fine.” 30:33 - From Unschooling to Science: “having learned by embracing your curiosity… perfectly suited me for this job.”

19 SEP 2020 · Today’s guest, Dr. Kate Green, has five very successful, alternatively educated young adult and teen children of her own. She also loves working as an educational consultant, to help other families make decisions that enable their children to joyfully excel. Kate, Gina, and I talked about what it is like to raise FIVE unschooled - or maybe worldschooled - kids, how each found their own unique path, balancing work and parenting, and more. So stay tuned for a great episode. 2:29 - The journey from schooling to unschooling: “I had to wear the teacher hat and then go back to the parent hat. And that wasn’t an authentic way of living.” 10:45 - Unschooling while working: “You just learn to have snacks readily available.” 13:12 - What are the “kids” up to?: “They’re able to follow their passions and… swap mid-plan.” 19:06 - Gaming, Screens, and Unschooling: “I think this is 21st Century social emotional learning skills that you have to build in virtual worlds.” 24:30 - Does Kate’s academic work (in Education) intersect with unschooling?: “I take great pride in walking outside of that traditional arena.” 29:44 - Unschooling and the family relationship: “It doesn’t matter if you hit a benchmark in math or literature. What matters is the relationship you have with people.”

30 AUG 2020 · Since doing this podcast, one thing Gina and I have noticed about self-directed learning is that people who undertake it in their formative years develop a really strong sense of self - the kind of sense of self that is unafraid to take on any limits around them. That's definitely true of today's guest, Ki Aoaygi. Ki discovered self-directed learning around the high school years and has gone on, among other things, to work `at the self-directed Sego Lilly school in Utah. Enjoy a fascinating conversation! 4:47 - When Ki Discovered Self-Directed Learning and Living: “It was a journey with a lot of ups and downs.” 9:54 - Is self-direction a natural trait or an acquired one: “When older students come in, it takes some time to adjust to that style of self-directed learning.” 15:15 - More about How Ki discovered self-directed learning at Not Back to School Camp: “I was surrounded by other teenagers who had lived their entire lives this way.” 22:26 - Working at a self-directed school in times of uncertainty: “Learning isn’t just something that stops in your k-12 years.” 28:13- Is self-directed learning only for self-starters?: “To me, self-directed learning is not about not going to typical classes. It is about being able to formulate how you learn.” 32:26 - Benefits and challenges of working at a self-directed school: “I really have to let myself just let them be.”

31 JUL 2020 · This episode’s guest has been advising teens to opt out of school for over two decades now. Ken Danford used to be a middle school teacher, but once he discovered self-directed learning, he co-founded the North Star Learning Center for Teens, a space where teenagers have control of their time and learning. Twenty some years later, North Star is thriving and has given way to the Liberated Learner network of Learning Centers. Ken even wrote a book about it, called Learning is Natural, School is Optional. Gina and Ken sat down to talk about what learning looks like at North Star and why he thinks, like the title of his book, that learning is natural and schooling should be optional. 1:27 - Ken talks about his path from middle-school teaching to self-directed learning for teens: “If it’s all true, then why aren’t more kids doing it?” 15:39 - Ken talks about what learning looks like at Northstar Learning Center: “It’s way easier than you want it to be. Just let it be easy.” 19:47 - Is self-directed learning for all kids?: “People need to learn how to manage themselves without being told what to do.” 23:26 - Can schools learn anything from self-directed learning?: “Schools are actually doing the functions that our society wants schools to be doing.” 25:43 - How do North Star kids turn out?: “It’s not hard, but there’s a path, and the burden is on you to demonstrate that you’re ready.” 37:23 - Ken’s book and what’s next for him and Northstar?: “Helping local kids not go to school by having the support of a local program is mostly what i do.”

4 JUL 2020 · What happens when kids rule the school? Well, that - When Kids Rule the School - is the title of a recent book by today’s guest, Jim Rietmulder. Jim is is a founding staff member at The Circle School in Pennsylvania, which is among the oldest self-directed democratic schools, where kids really do rule the school. They choose what they want to do with their time as well as create and uphold school rules. Kevin, Jim, and Gina sat down to talk about what all of this looks like in practice, as well as why Jim thinks that learning should not be the primary aim of school. We hope you enjoy this fascinating conversation. 4:00 - Kevin Plays the Skeptic (“What Do They Learn?): “I think what is more important than learning to multiply fractions is developing the capacity to multiply fractions.” 13:42: - What Do Kids Do at the Circle School?: “It would be kids doing things that kids love to do.” 18:52 - Talking About Screen Time: “You’re often going to have a friend saying ‘Come on; there’s a Capture the Flag game going on!’” 27:18 - Learning, Happiness, and Self-Fulfillment “I don’t think that learning is the most important thing that should be going on in schools.” 35:03 - Gina Plays the Skeptic (“How Will They Get Jobs?”): “What we see in our graduates is very reassuring to the skeptical observer.” 39:39 - Arnie Learns to Write a Term Paper (in College!): “He did the hard work he had to do to get to the goal he was after.”

12 JUN 2020 · On this episode, we are joined by Robin Alpern, a 65-year-old white woman who narrowly missed a career as an elementary school teacher. Instead, she and her former husband unschooled their four children to college. This was largely in the 1990’s, and since there weren’t many resources for unschoolers, Robin co-founded the Tri-County Homeschoolers network, which, as we’ll hear, helped Gina when her own family unschooled. Robin, Gina and I talk about the challenges and benefits of unschooling in the ‘90’s, the diverse ways her children learned, and much more. Enjoy. 1:46 - Robin’s Decision to Unschool in the 1990’s: “We knew we were pioneering something. I mean, none of us had grown up with anything like this.” 6:44 - Robin’s Children Learning by Living: “As homeschoolers, we weren’t actively shutting down his learning processes, so he did what you do: he learned. ” 14:33 - Struggling to Let Kids Make Their Own Choices: “She had spent the whole year when she was six begging to go to school.” 20:30 - Benefits and Challenges of Unschooling: “It was hard having neighbors and people in our community who felt that we were actually abusing our children for homeschooling them.” 24:26 - Unschooling When Few Others Were: “This was pretty much an experiment, and who knew what was going to happen?” 32:33 - Robin’s Children Go to College: “She kind of had to learn over night the things that other kids were learning all along, like how to take notes in class.”

29 MAY 2020 · Our guest for this episode has worked as a research fellow at the Environmental Protection Agency, and will soon be working toward her PhD in microbiology at Dartmouth College. But her first day of school was at the age of 14, when she decided to attend a public high school after being homeschooled without any formal curriculum. Today, we talk with Alice Goldstein-Plesser about her unique educational path from homeschool to high school to college to a career in the natural sciences, what the transition from and to each of these was like, and what Alice thinks is the connection between her homeschooled background and her deep love for science and the natural world. Stay tuned for a wonderful and wide-ranging episode. 2:38 - Why Alice’s Family Chose Homeschooling - “They looked at each other and said, ‘Let’s look for something else,' and found homeschooling.” 10:00 - Alice Decides to Go to High School: “ At some point, I wanted to learn science in a more traditional way.” 18:39 - Alice’s First Class - AP US History: “That class put me through the ringer and I came out much more knowledge about academics.” 28:12 - Is College More Like Homeschooling or High School?: ”Going to college, it was sort of a mixed bag.” 34:11 - Alice’s Life Now as a Scientist: “I’ve always thought that homeschooling taught me how to learn really well and how to find resources. But so did college, and so did high school…” 36:41 - Alice’s Retrospective Thoughts on Homeschooling: “I think every person learns very differently, and every person is in a very different situation.”

15 MAY 2020 · Our guest today, Hope Wilder is the founder of Pathfinder Community School, a learning community where kids truly learn by living. A lifelong learner herself, Hope had an accelerated experience of the public school system, graduating from the University of South Carolina at the age of 19 with degrees in Biology and German. For the dozen years before starting Pathfinder, she worked and played as an alternative outdoor educator and science teacher at private schools and local nonprofits. Hope, Kevin, and I sat down to talk about Hope’s experience watching kids learn through freedom and play, and what can happen when learners are truly in charge. Full disclosure: Kevin is also a member of Pathfinder’s Board of Directors where he currently serves as Board President. 1:39 - From Outdoor Educator to Founder of Self-Directed School: “I kind of made a vow to never teach somebody again who didn’t want to learn what I was teaching.” 6:10 - Stores from Hope’s Internship at Self-Directed Schools: “I saw a fifteen year old turn to a thirteen year old and said, ‘Hey, what’s the stock market?’” 14:24 - Giving Everyone an Equal Voice in Running a School: “Chore time came and we said, ‘Nope… we're trying out this idea from this one kid to not do chores to see if they’re necessary.’” 12:54 - What Types of People Choose Pathfinder? “People come to self-directed education for all different kinds of reasons.” 35:09 - How Kids Learn at Pathfinder: “They knew what they wanted to learn, so it was easy peasy.” 44:47 - Lessons Learned from a Self-Directed School: “The negative way to say it is ‘Don’t squish them.’”