What happens when kids rule the school? Well, that - When Kids Rule the School - is the title of a recent book by today’s guest, Jim Rietmulder. Jim is is a founding staff member at The Circle School in Pennsylvania, which is among the oldest self-directed democratic schools, where kids really do rule the school. They choose what they want to do with their time as well as create and uphold school rules. Kevin, Jim, and Gina sat down to talk about what all of this looks like in practice, as well as why Jim thinks that learning should not be the primary aim of school. We hope you enjoy this fascinating conversation.



4:00 - Kevin Plays the Skeptic (“What Do They Learn?): “I think what is more important than learning to multiply fractions is developing the capacity to multiply fractions.”
13:42: - What Do Kids Do at the Circle School?: “It would be kids doing things that kids love to do.”
18:52 - Talking About Screen Time: “You’re often going to have a friend saying ‘Come on; there’s a Capture the Flag game going on!’”
27:18 - Learning, Happiness, and Self-Fulfillment “I don’t think that learning is the most important thing that should be going on in schools.”
35:03 - Gina Plays the Skeptic (“How Will They Get Jobs?”): “What we see in our graduates is very reassuring to the skeptical observer.”
39:39 - Arnie Learns to Write a Term Paper (in College!): “He did the hard work he had to do to get to the goal he was after.”