Julia Angwin, the former editor-in-chief of The Markup, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher in this live podcast recorded in Washington, DC. In this episode: How Angwin got into journalism; why weren’t people always angry about tech privacy?; ProPublica’s investigations into tech companies; the "ungovernable" tech giants; leaving ProPublica to co-found The Markup; Angwin’s co-founders, Jeff Larson and Sue Gardner; what the hell happened?; what part of it was Angwin’s fault?; the difference between being skeptical and negative; Larson’s Medium post and Craig Newmark’s reaction; is it easier to raise money for advocacy news?; media literacy for young people; "scientific journalism"; and what Angwin will do next. This special episode of Recode Decode with Kara Swisher was taped in front of a live audience at The LINE DC to celebrate Vox’s fifth anniversary. If you enjoyed it, we think you’ll also enjoy this live taping of The Weeds, and this special episode of The Ezra Klein Show featuring Vox’s co-founders Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias, and Vox Media’s Publisher Melissa Bell.