What does secure coding look like today? Carl and Richard talk to Chris Ayers about the MITRE ATT&CK matrix, a comprehensive breakdown of the tactics, techniques, and procedures black hats use to exploit your systems. Chris talks about the role of developers in creating more secure software, starting with logging - surfacing important data about the use of applications that can help indicate when a black hat is taking advantage of it. The conversation also digs into supply chain attacks, various techniques for resisting exploits being introduced through libraries, and the ever-expanding array of threats affecting software today!