There's been a lot of talk in church leadership surrounding the ideas of influence, engagement, attendance, and more. So how should we actually measure success in our church? (Or should we at all?)Join us for this conversation with Karl Vaters, a widely-respected voice for pastors in smaller churches. If you already follow Karl, you know his passion for the Church is unmistakable and the practicality of his ideas is refreshing.And, of course, our favorite quote from the conversation is this: "If you minister to seniors, remember these four words: Grandma went to Woodstock." -- It may sound crazy at first, but take a listen to uncover why those four words truly are important. Want to take a look at some conversation takeaways and see any resources mentioned during the conversation? Check out this episode's show notes.Support the show (https://www.95network.org/contact-us/)