This week Denise speaks with author and journalist - Lech Blaine.  They discuss his latest Quarterly Essay - Bad Cop - about Opposition leader Peter Dutton.  Lech tells us not to underestimate his prupose and drive - and makes the point that while 'governing from Opposition' would mean that Peter Dutton doesn't achieve his long held ambition of becoming PM he can still have great impact.  They also speak about Peter Dutton's style and tactics suiting the times with the global rise of the populist politician and a media fuelled by conflict and clickbait.  A good conversation which is well worth a listen.