Leslie is joined by Anat Shenker-Osorio, Founder and Principal of ASO Communications.  Anat examines why certain messages falter where others deliver. She’s led research into how to persuade and mobilize on issues ranging from tackling right-wing race baiting to promoting clean energy and from honoring the rights of immigrants to reforming criminal justice.

The focus of today's discussion is Anat's new podcast, 'Brave New Words.'  'Brave New Words' takes listeners on a journey around the globe with Anat as she unpacks real-world narrative shifts that led to real-world victories. From electing the dynamic Jacinda Ardern Prime Minister of New Zealand, to repealing a national ban on abortion in Ireland, to beating back right-wing race baiting in Minnesota, Anatand her guests explore what made it possible to engage the base, persuade the middle, send the naysayers packing, and win.

Anat has delivered her findings at venues such as the U.S. Congressional Progressive Caucus, Centre for Australian Progress, Irish Migrant Centre, Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation, New Zealand Council of Trade Unions, the European Commission and LUSH International.

You can find the 'Brave New Words' podcast on the web at BraveNewWordsPod.com.  Anat's Twitter handle is @anatosaurus and the handle for her podcast is @_BraveNewWords.