Shame is that all-encompassing, embodied, sinking feeling that we are wrong or bad. It’s not just a sense of guilt over something we did, but the wrongness of who we are. And shame has all kinds of occasions to creep in; the perceived wrongness of our body, our relationships status, our parenting, our career, and the list goes on.

In today’s episode, Jasmine Holmes invites us to consider the influence shame has on our lives. Jasmine Holmes is a teacher and author, committed to centering black stories in history. She has written books such as Carved in Ebony: Lessons from the Black Women Who Shape Us and Mother to Son: Letters to A Black Boy on Identity and Hope. Jasmine’s latest book is called, Never Cast Out: How the Gospel Puts an End to the Story of Shame.

In my time with Jasmine, we talk about how scripts of perfectionism in Christian and popular culture can lead to shame. Jasmine also shares about her own journey of shame’s influence in her life and the transformation that took place when she opened space for Jesus to speak into those places where shame dwelled. Jasmine also gives us important ideas on how to notice and combat shame in our lives; ultimately reminding us that grace is stronger than shame. My hope is that this conversation might bring some light into our own corners of shame. And in those places, may the voice of grace speak loudest.