2 MAY 2022 · Kristen Mynar, a board certified estate planning and probate attorney and partner with Naman, Howell, Smith & Lee in Waco, joins us on today's show. Kristen talks about maximizing your mentors, caring about your clients, and what she looks for when hiring (hint: it's not on a resume!). Her firm/practice Offices in Waco, FW, San Antonio, Austin Most of the attorneys specialize in something, and there isn't much they don't do Her typical client has high-net worth and a closely held business, so you wind up working with them both on the estate planning and business related issues. Board certified as soon as she could, five years after starting practice Law is always changing so always have to stay on top of it; changing administrations can have an impact certainly so watching for whether new laws get passed at the federal level Current exemptions are at all-time highs but set to expire and be cut in half in 2026. Waco is a great community; friendly/competent lawyers; way more money here than you would think, and those people keep their money here. Does a lot of work with partners in the other offices, as well as with clients in the small communities around Waco. Also succession planning for client businesses. Estate Planning can touch a lot of practice areas Advice to lawyers in practice Her grammar was a problem in the beginning! So she got red inked on everything for three years. She had great mentors and was a sponge. She listened/learned. Did push back when it looked like there was more than one way to do something. Fortunate to have someone who wanted to teach her how to practice. Much of her practice is drafting/writing, and she kept making the same mistakes at first. So she made a list of all the mistakes she would typically make, and then before submitting anything to the partners would go over that list to see if she had made any of those mistakes. Learn to compensate for yourself Be humble Take a minute and think about it! See if you can figure it out. The reader should be able to tell that you at least thought through it. RE: Business development: just be out in the community and make sure people know what you do. Offer to go speak to different groups. Do a good job and care about the client! Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market Not a big believer in resumes. In interviews, looking for personality. Are you a person that I want to practice with? Personable? Easy to talk with? Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ability to use their brain What habit has been key to your success: keeping my time every day Favorite app/productivity tool: N/A - all apps are anti-productive What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: mothering, (low-carb) cooking, lounging Favorite legal movie: Bowl? The Case for Christ Thanks again to Kristen Mynar for joining us on today's show!

1 APR 2022 · Erin Brockovich is an outstanding 2000 film based on a true story about a woman who never gives up, doesn't take no for an answer, and helps get justice for an entire town. Robert and Daniel are joined by special guest Hope Mustakim to break it all down! Check out Hope's Waco ISD campaign page! https://www.hope4wacoisd.com/

28 MAR 2022 · Spencer Edwards, a shareholder and trial lawyer with The Hudgins Law Firm in Houston, joins us on today's show. Spencer talks about how to conduct yourself in trial, being eager to learn, and demonstrating work ethic in an interview. His firm/practice 97 Baylor Law grad (25 years of practice) Catastrophic Injury / Wrongful Death trial lawyer (though hasn't tried one since 2019 due to COVID) COVID has essentially created a backlog of cases and trials, and that hasn't stopped new cases from coming in Has a case set for trial March 1st The shift in the judiciary has made an impact on the practice (R to D in Harris County), which initially meant actual trial lawyers were on the bench which was helpful. But now, there has been a shift in competence, experience, and consistency as well, which creates a different dynamic More high dollar verdicts in recent years has injected uncertainty on the defense side in valuing cases as well as emboldened plaintiff's lawyers Advice to lawyers in practice Remember that you are going to work with/against lawyers/judges again, so don't be a jerk! Chill No need to be super aggressive Only takes one moment to damage your reputation Throw inside if you must, but don't throw a beanball! If another attorney does that to you, however, you have to be willing to push back, especially in front of the jury If rules of procedure/evidence don't apply, then they aren't going to apply, so don't be the only one confined by them Also have to be prepared for rulings against you, even if they are clearly wrong Do it with a smile on your face; don't lose your cool; don't try to embarrass the judge; you can get makeup calls! Keep perspective You are going to lose cases, even some you should have won (you'll probably win some you should have lost) Don't let losses devastate you Exude confidence in the courtroom; act like you feel like you can/should win Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions / pride is dangerous to a young lawyer And ask why Don't make the same mistake twice If something needs to get done right now, that might not be the best time to push back/challenge/ask why...just do it! Find the right time/context. The best way to develop business is to do good work; and then watch the way lawyers at your firm develop their business and imitate that Learn how to talk on the phone! Older partners/clients expect it and are used to it Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market He's not a big resume guy! At their firm, a couple of younger lawyers review all the resumes and decide who to interview, and so he rarely sees the resumes. Also, law schools vary with their grading scales, so it is hard to compare candidates based on that Impressed with work history (even in high school and college) that demonstrates work ethic Important to bring up these things in an interview if you realize it could help you, since these items are likely not on your legal resume Final Thought From Professor Matt Dawson's speech to his law school graduating class: "I'm a smart guy, but that's not why I have been successful. I am successful because I have always worked hard. Don't get outworked. Don't let the other side beat you by outworking you." Great trial lawyer advice. Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Eager to learn What habit has been key to your success: Get some sleep Favorite app/productivity tool: Whiteboard What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Baseball / Astros Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny Thanks again to Spencer Edwards for joining us on today's show!

21 FEB 2022 · Dave talks about being known as a trial lawyer, being proactive, and conversational interviews.

15 NOV 2021 · Christian Dennie, a sports lawyer, commercial litigator, and partner at Barlow, Garsek, & Simon in Fort Worth, joins us on today's show. Christian talks about understanding the case, demonstrating grit, and how the new name, image, and likeness legislation is playing out thus far. His firm/practice Firm is headquartered in Fort Worth with a Southlake office Commercial firm (no criminal) He focuses on sports clients but does a number of things under that umbrella including arbitration Fort Worth / Tarrant County legal practice Small town with over 1M people Plenty of large businesses Lots of lifers More local/Texas based firms Collegial and supportive of one another New name, image, and likeness NCAA rules and state laws, as well as potential changes to the NCAA constitution are significant issues Advice to lawyers in practice Have someone that will take you under their wing and serve as a mentor to you and help you learn/grow You win lawsuits in the library and not the courtroom Sometimes the law is not on your side but you need to be creative because things need to change Can happen in the courtroom with a decision, OR In a settlement or outside of the courtroom...can be just as good as a decision Take the case and figure it out It's not about sitting in your office 18 hours a day to show that you are committed; but it's not about the hours You are a problem solver Ideal is to be at a law firm that has enough work that you aren't having to "create time" to meet your billable hour requirements Daniel recalls former guest Jim Chester's advice to never leave a partner's office without the DDB (deadline / deliverable / budget). Important for the client to understand what they are asking as well Formulate a game plan early for how you are going to generate the clients you want Put yourself around the clients you want, but with the expertise you have even if that is different than what you ultimately want to do Understand the culture/business/environment of the clients you want to serve Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market Demonstrate the work you have done How does your work history match what the firm needs Is there a cultural fit? If you played sports in college or beyond that stands out to him because of the grit factor Trial experience, judicial clerkships, real estate deals/closings, employment contract experience all looks good If you don't have those things, do you have the interest, curiosity, and willingness to transition Sports Law  Not a lot of large national deals yet 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals / Gatto case Lots of local/regional deals Just making sure they comply with state law, because if they don't then they won't comply with NCAA rules Contract can't extend beyond eligibility and there are multiple places in agreements where perpetual licenses are inserted Bonuses based on results are not permissible and some of the early contracts had those in there Schools are starting to get a better grasp of it Texas' law specifically says you can't use logos/marks which can cause issues Some schools are trying to figure out how to permit the use Houston Travis Scott concert Was there adequate security? What does the license on the ticket say and do we have an enforceable arbitration clause? What if you are forced to click a link to go out and read the fine print of the license? Insurance? The NCAA recommendations on constitution/bylaw changes is a major issue in college athletics; especially if we see more power pushed down to the conference level Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ability to roll up the sleeves and get after it; willing to do what it takes; send the fax! What habit has been key to your success: understanding the client; establishing trust Favorite app/productivity tool: Twitter What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: sports and family; stand-up paddle boarding Favorite legal movie: A Time to Kill / My Cousin Vinny First date of OU/TX in the SEC: 2023 Thanks again to Christian Dennie for joining us on today's show!

8 NOV 2021 · Anne Heaviside, a managing director and legal recruiter with ELR in Houston, joins us on today's show. Anne talks about the lateral legal market, work from home policies, and top tips for candidates.  Her firm and role ELR Legal is in the Tanglewood area of Houston Specializes in 2-10 year lawyers in Texas law firms / mostly Houston / mostly Big Law (AmLaw 200) Got her start practicing law, including at McGlinchy Stafford. She then took over the recruiting role there before stepping out to work as a legal recruiter on the outside Legal Market Update 2019 was good as was the start of 2020 COVID put everything on hold until about November 2020 November things opened up, especially in the Big Law corporate world (Can you say SPACs?!) Capital Markets M&A Private Equity Debt Finance 2021 only got hotter Big signing bonuses ($10k-$50k) There are not enough corporate associates in Texas for the demand The need is new work. Clients have more demand from Big Law firms and there aren't enough 3-6 year associates with the necessary skills. Record number of lateral moves in Houston and Dallas Plus new Big Law firms opening up in Austin September hit and those associates have worked between 2000-2800 hours already in 2021 and are no longer taking recruiter calls; they are waiting for their year-end bonus before lateralling at the start of 2022. Real Estate an Executive Comp/Employee Benefits have gotten hot Big Law litigation is cool/slow Litigation boutiques are hiring but they are super picky (think Big Law requirements) Davis Polk raised the first year starting salaries from $190k to $205k and Cravath (the previous trend setter) matched (as have several others now). Has led to some mid/small firms rethink their comp. Big Law v. Small Law Corporate v. Litigation Hardly any small/mid corporate firms No sign of slowing down in 2022 In this market, small/mid associates and in-house lawyers CAN make a move to Big Law Work/Office Arrangements Flexibility is here to stay (in Big Law) How flexible is the question AmLaw 50 is still at home in Houston or back in the office by choice Multiple office firms across the county/internationally have a hard time making different policies for different offices AmLaw 200 will likely move to a 3/2 (three days in the office and two at home) Though new associates will likely be required to be in the office for the training/mentorship/culture/etc. Mid-levels and Senior associates will likely push for even more Small firms Will likely have more variety of policies More likely to be in the office than the Big Law firms Challenges to flex work Lack of integration within the firm What happens when promotion time comes or the work slows down and layoffs are required? Will the person who has been at home be disadvantaged versus the one who has been in the office? How can we replicate the in-office benefits and experiences that we don't want to lose? Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market This is not OCI anymore Not tell me about yourself or what practice to you want to go in There is a specific need they are looking to fill So firm needs to understand exact experience If you have stellar academics (great grades at a great law school), list that first. Otherwise start with your law firm experience 3-6 bullets under each position communicating exactly what you do Your role in what types of deals/cases You can take out the bullets under internships or clerkships if you need space If you have been practicing for at least 3+ years you need a deal sheet Know as much about the job you are applying for as possible so you can tailor your experience to the need Litigators definitely need a writing sample GPA on the resume if it was at least a 3.2 (Big Law still cares even for laterals) Big Law resumes don't need interest sections, but small law firms will often like to see it If you do have it, make the interests unique, specific Final Thought If you are going to use a recruiter, look for those who have contacts at the firms you are interested in Recruiters can help navigate some tough conversations and issues that come up (conflicts, negotiating offers, etc.) Once your resume gets submitted to a firm (whether directly or through a recruiter), another recruiter won't be able to help you for at least 6-12 months at that firm. So be mindful. Pros/Cons about using one or multiple recruiters, but one tends to work better for the candidate. Candidates should give thought to whether they want to use a recruiter BEFORE they start doing anything in the process; this allows for any recruiter to best help you. Recruiters can give insight on comp, especially in smaller firms where there isn't a standard scale Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic employers most want to see in an associate: smart What habit has been key to your success: consistency Favorite app/productivity tool: Linkedin What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Food blogging / foodie Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Podcast Thanks again to Anne Heaviside for joining us on today's show!

25 OCT 2021 · Shameer Soni, managing partner and real estate lawyer with Patel Law Group in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Shameer talks about starting a law firm, the real estate practice, communicating via resume, and wide receivers v. linemen. His firm/practice Runs the real estate practice: multi-family purchase/sale/development. Works with retail/industrial/hospitality clients as well Started the firm 11 years ago with two other partners built around entrepreneurs and business owners. The idea was to represent these clients in their core business as well as their investment portfolio (i.e. real estate). Started with clients whose core businesses were doctors, IT staffing, hotel Led to corporate immigration and real estate practice areas Also had/have a title company Now have a litigation practice as well that has recently pared down to work with clients adjacent to the real estate practice Got his start at a larger firm doing entertainment/film finance in Atlanta, but when he came over to start this firm, the Dallas/Texas market didn't support the film finance area, which led to the transition to real estate He went to every networking event, meetup in the beginning to get the firm off the ground His partner Anish went to a networking breakfast every week at 6am at Steak and Shake There is no bad meeting, no bad meetup. Your network has value in perpetuity. In the early days, he built relationships with lawyers who knew what they were doing and were willing to help when he got into situations he was unsure about Learned a lot about firm culture and the things they wanted in a firm while working for others, and then used that info to build the culture in their firm. Want to be the un-law firm law firm. From social interaction to limiting hourly billing (they do zero hourly billing on the transactional side). Conduct exit interviews with lawyers who leave and learn more about ways to improve the firm's culture. Market 90% of their work is in Texas; 60% in north Texas. Deals ranging from $2M to $300M and all of those are in a strong market right now. Industrial is hot right now as well. Community retail is picking up. Hotels were crushed and remain so for now. Residential is on fire in Texas, but COVID has slowed down the process with supply chain issues, etc. Advice to lawyers in practice Learn business development and client relationships early; be proactive in asking to go with your partner on client visits Learn everything about a deal, not just your specific task/role Do as many meetings as you can You want to become a profit center as soon as possible rather than be a cost center for the firm Recognize that you are part of the deal and collaborating with the client for a win-win scenario; it is more than just a piece of paper Clients aren't hiring you to be a title review guy; they are hiring you to do a deal Must understand the forest and not just your tree Establish trust with your partners quickly so they are comfortable bringing you along to meet partners without embarrassing them Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market Recognize what the firm is looking for and make sure your documents clearly communicate your ability to meet those needs Be specific about what you have done What size deals? What type of deals? What role did you have? Find ways to connect with the partners (did you go to the same law school?) He rewrites his bio on the law firm website every quarter! It is a good exercise to think about when writing/rewriting your resume. Looking for the right fit for the need they have at the time Broadway show staffing example Football recruiting example Final Thought Attitude makes up for a lot; skills can be learned/taught. Much harder to teach personality/attitude/mindset. Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: work ethic What habit has been key to your success: persistence Favorite app/productivity tool: Netdocs What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Formula One racing Favorite legal movie: Liar Liar / podcast Thanks again to Shameer Soni for joining us on today's show!

11 OCT 2021 · Erin Rodgers, entertainment lawyer and shareholder at Rodgers Selvera, joins us on today's show! Erin talks about the ever changing entertainment industry, knowing your value, and the interest section on your resume. Her firm/practice Partnered with Sergio Selvera He had stopped practicing for a time to start a record label when he came to a CLE where she was speaking. She became his lawyer for a time, and then he decided he wanted to practice again and they decided to partner up Entertainment law Music/TV/Writers/etc. Non-profit IP / contractual She has a music degree and is still a performer, which has helped her build the practice through the relationships she has Houston is the 4th largest city in the country so there is a lot of art business Austin has a better marketing department for its arts scene But much of the work is federal and the communication can be done remotely, so geography doesn't tend to matter as much Being an artist helps her understand what clients are going through as new technologies/distribution/etc. issues come up Textbooks can't keep up with the changes in the industry Students can help you keep up! One record label friend says they are predominately marketing new music via Tik Tok and Fortnite Why not you? (when it comes to practicing entertainment law) Do something every day that moves you forward to the thing you want to do. Entertainment Law is an amalgam of things that already exist (copyright, entity formation, trademarks, etc.) Non-profit/entertainment/sports have quite a bit of overlap, and for the arts sometimes the entity itself should be a non-profit There is a new Copyright Royalty Board Essentially a small claims court/mediation for copyright, since so many "violations" go unchallenged due to the high cost of lawsuits Pros/cons: will make many more people/companies likely to be challenged for their work that takes from others A panel is supposed to make decisions Advice to lawyers in practice If you want to practice entertainment law, volunteering with the Texas Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts can provide great experience Show your sincere interest in the practice Don't make it more convenient / less costly in time for the lawyer/partner do just do it themselves as opposed to showing you how Know the value of the service that you offer If you aren't charging enough, some people/potential clients/referrers may assume you aren't good Understand the market Setting your rates can help you filter what type of clients you work with On Work/Life Balance Make the choice as early on as you can Prioritize certain things on top of your law practice, even if its small chunks of time Minimize the amount of work that isn't billable That we can do everything ourselves doesn't mean we should Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market Highlight specific experience that relates to the position, the industry Interests section matters! "want to work in a small office" not the best response to why do you want to work here. Maybe that could be the 4th/5th thing on the list, but certainly shouldn't be the first. Employers can tell when you are sending the same cover letter to every job/employer. Tailor your cover letters! She actually gave credit to those who voluntarily submitted a cover letter when it wasn't asked for. Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: think on your feet / adaptable What habit has been key to your success: work/life balance Favorite app/productivity tool: pen/paper list and random number generator What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: playing music (clarinet, accordion, guitar, piano, vocals) Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Lone Star Lawyers Movie Verdicts Episode Thanks again to Erin Rodgers for joining us on today's show!

4 OCT 2021 · Marty Sadler, insurance litigator with Litchfield Cavo in Houston, joins us on today's show! Marty talks about managing up, maintaining your humanity, and the importance of poise in an interview. His firm/practice 22 offices across the nation full service firm Houston office (15 lawyers) mostly does insurance work (he does 1st party and many in his office do third party) Texas lawyers needed for so much of the weather-generated work (hurricanes/hail/wind) that Texas generates New Texas Supreme Court opinion in Hinojos (v. State Farm) - related to payment of claims after an appraisal. Used to be that if you paid promptly, you avoided all the statutory delay interest penalties. The SC took that away. COVID update (9/29/21) With 22 offices there are 22 different COVID situations; every office doing their own thing Houston office: people can decide how much they want to work in the office v. at home Marty has only been back in the office once since March 2020; and that one time was by order of a Federal Judge for a hearing! Very few in-person hearings; no trials since the start of COVID Expects he will work in a hybrid office format for the rest of his career What have we lost (or will lose) moving more to relationship online v in-person? Advice to lawyers in practice Attention to detail is the most salient element for success as a young lawyer Learn how to "manage up" in your professional relationships Don't just react Communicate with your partners as to what your workload is like and ask for the priority order of the projects Talk to other associates and see how they work with their partners/supervisors Resources: https://www.idealist.org/en/careers/managing-up https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-does-it-mean-to-manage-up-11608242276 https://www.attorneyatwork.com/managing-up/ Push to product He can't revise a motion that you haven't given him, or that is missing large pieces He wants to see the work twice: once as a framework of the work early that he can edit, and then a polished form of the product later Partners may have a different process, so again it is important for you to get to know what each partner you work for expects/requires. Also have to manage the calendar to allow for the entire process to work before filing On business development Learn how to be a lawyer first You don't have to be 50 to get your first referral; young lawyers have an opportunity to get cases early in their careers On work/life balance You can always work longer/harder, so you can become consumed in being a lawyer You have to figure out a way to remember you are a human being first Don't go home to the family as a lawyer Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market He likes to see some judicial intern/clerk experience if you are a new lawyer so you have been in the courtroom Writing samples are helpful Show poise in the interview; comfortable and confident when things change on them Find ways to talk about what you bring to the firm and how you will help the firm Final Thoughts If you are an associate, the best thing you can do to improve your career is to make yourself indispensable to your partner(s). Will increase your client contact, chances to do depositions, etc. Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: poise What habit has been key to your success: attention to detail Favorite app/productivity tool: Word What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: bird photography Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny CHECK OUT HIS BIRD PHOTOGRAPHY! On Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-sadler-61094120/detail/recent-activity/ Thanks again to Marty Sadler for joining us on today's show!

20 SEP 2021 · Lauren Valkenaar, a partner and commercial litigator with Chasnoff Stribling in San Antonio, joins us on today's show. Lauren talks about having an internal standard, being honest and authentic in your job search, and developing business best practices. Her firm/practice Boutique litigation firm Business/commercial litigation Broke off of a large firm and wanted to maintain the same level of quality but get a little more autonomy Flexible/nimble Cases deal with Breach of Contract, Tortious Interference, Fraud, etc. COVID has changed the way they practice Not physically in the courtroom, but they have adapted well Zoom hearings will likely stay Their clients get sued all over the country, so Zoom is a positive Zoom depos are a different thing and in-person is more important there COVID also impacting their clients How to deal with their employees / working remote or in-office Everyone is an employment lawyer now (Daniel) Don't get complacent with your technology (Daniel) / Don't be a cat! San Antonio Very collegial bar All the amenities of large city but a smaller town feel Great mentors because lawyers are close and kind As a young professional, many more opportunities to get involved in the community and make an impact at a high level Advice to lawyers in practice Create an internal standard / desire to get it right / goes beyond checking the box / when you know that you are likely the only one to know whether or not you "ran an issue to ground." So much of being a lawyer is internal motivation Surround yourself with great people who keep these high standards You are the average of the five people closest to you (Daniel / Jim Rohn) Think about the business aspect of the law firm Learn from people who are different from you Be a team player; that shows up immediately and makes a big impact Are you offering to help on other cases when you are done for the day but others are still working? Focus on the work product / the words / the documents Have an intellectual curiosity; think/learn beyond the discrete task you are working on; try to get a handle on the larger picture and how your piece fits in Don't be a jerk Don't have sloppy work product Communicate, especially if you are doing work for multiple partner with different deadlines. Don't just be silent. On business development: Plant seeds and build relationships with zero expectations they will turn into business Your law school classmates can become your clients or referral sources; stay in touch with them! Do great work Get involved in the community Don't do something for the sole purpose of developing business: rarely does that work Over time, business will come in more from referrals based upon the work you have done for someone; but that takes time to build up Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market No typos in the resume! Connection to the type of work should show through in the resume Continuity and not a lot of jumping around firm to firm The more specific you can be on the resume the better in order to show what they've done and accomplished in their prior/current roles. Helps you to stand out, but also for the interviewer to know how to slot you in if they do hire you. How much training will you need, etc.? Come to the interview prepared with questions Avoid arrogance/entitlement; that's a turnoff Honesty and authenticity shines through Final Thoughts Be honest and self-aware in what you are looking for in a firm; those are critical to making a good match in the hiring process. Rapid Fire Questions Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Grit (book by Angela Duckworth; Ted Talk) What habit has been key to your success: Never assuming; always go back and double check Favorite app/productivity tool: Remarkable What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Travel (Italy; Cambodia) Favorite legal movie: A Time To Kill Thanks again to Lauren Valkenaar for joining us on today's show!