<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:podcast="https://podcastindex.org/namespace/1.0" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" version="2.0"><channel><title>DeFi Drip Podcast | Tokenized Assets &amp; Onchain Finance</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/defi-drip-podcast-tokenized-assets-onchain-finance--5922429</link><description><![CDATA[The tokenized asset market went from $1B to $25B in two years. <br />DeFi Drip by Centrifuge goes inside the room: direct conversations with the founders, protocol leads, and asset managers making the decisions that are moving institutional finance onchain. Not analysis. Not predictions. The people actually building it, explaining how.]]></description><atom:link href="https://www.spreaker.com/show/5922429/episodes/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><language>en</language><category>Technology</category><copyright>Copyright Centrifuge</copyright><image><url>https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg</url><title>DeFi Drip Podcast | Tokenized Assets &amp; Onchain Finance</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/defi-drip-podcast-tokenized-assets-onchain-finance--5922429</link></image><lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2026 14:15:04 +0000</lastBuildDate><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:owner><itunes:name>Centrifuge</itunes:name><itunes:email>marketing@centrifuge.io</itunes:email></itunes:owner><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:subtitle>The tokenized asset market went from $1B to $25B in two years. 
DeFi Drip by Centrifuge goes inside the room: direct conversations with the founders, protocol leads, and asset managers making the decisions that are moving institutional finance...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[The tokenized asset market went from $1B to $25B in two years. <br />DeFi Drip by Centrifuge goes inside the room: direct conversations with the founders, protocol leads, and asset managers making the decisions that are moving institutional finance onchain. Not analysis. Not predictions. The people actually building it, explaining how.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:category text="Technology"/><itunes:category text="News"><itunes:category text="Tech News"/></itunes:category><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type><item><title>Vaults to Power Every Financial Product Onchain | J. Offerijns &amp; F. Gartenmeister, Centrifuge — S2E5</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/vaults-to-power-every-financial-product-onchain-j-offerijns-f-gartenmeister-centrifuge-s2e5--73014709</link><description><![CDATA[Vaults started as a yield product for DeFi users. Jeroen Offerijns, CTO at Centrifuge Labs, and Frederik Gartenmeister, Head of Product at Centrifuge Labs, argue they're becoming the core primitive that enables any financial product — funds, ETFs, securitizations — to run natively onchain.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Mariia Yatsenko, Head of Marketing at Centrifuge Labs, sits down with Jeroen and Frederik to break down institutional vaults: what makes them different from standard DeFi vaults, why asynchronous execution is a feature not a bug, and what the road from tokenization to native onchain origination actually looks like.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>Why vaults are becoming the core primitive for onchain finance — not just yield products</li><li>What "institutional" means in the context of vault infrastructure</li><li>Why asynchronous execution is a safeguard, not a limitation</li><li>Onchain PM: managing one portfolio across multiple chains</li><li>Accounting tokens: how Centrifuge solves the settlement phase problem</li><li>The three stages of onchain finance: tokenization, onchain asset management, native origination</li><li>What higher risk-adjusted yields look like when RWAs and DeFi assets are combined in one vault </li></ul>LEARN MORE LEARN MORE<br />Dive deeper into institutional vaults with Centrifuge's technical series:<br /><ul><li>Centrifuge Expands Its Institutional Vault Stack with the Onchain Portfolio Manager → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/onchain-pm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/onchain-pm</a></li><li>The Evolution of the Onchain Capital Stack → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/from-tokenization-to-vaults-onchain-capital-stack" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/from-tokenization-to-vaults-onchain-capital-stack</a></li><li>Beyond Instant Settlement: The Standard for Asynchronous Vaults → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/asynchronous-vaults" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/asynchronous-vaults</a></li><li>The Programmable Vault Stack: Customize Behavior Without Rewriting the Core → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/the-programmable-vault-stack" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/the-programmable-vault-stack</a></li></ul><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br /><ul><li>Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io </a></li><li>Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog </a></li><li>X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge </a></li><li>LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq </a></li><li>Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a></li></ul><br />]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/73014709</guid><pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2026 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/73014709/2_frederik_jeroen_podcast.mp3" length="12961089" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Vaults started as a yield product for DeFi users. Jeroen Offerijns, CTO at Centrifuge Labs, and Frederik Gartenmeister, Head of Product at Centrifuge Labs, argue they're becoming the core primitive that enables any financial product — funds, ETFs,...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Vaults started as a yield product for DeFi users. Jeroen Offerijns, CTO at Centrifuge Labs, and Frederik Gartenmeister, Head of Product at Centrifuge Labs, argue they're becoming the core primitive that enables any financial product — funds, ETFs, securitizations — to run natively onchain.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Mariia Yatsenko, Head of Marketing at Centrifuge Labs, sits down with Jeroen and Frederik to break down institutional vaults: what makes them different from standard DeFi vaults, why asynchronous execution is a feature not a bug, and what the road from tokenization to native onchain origination actually looks like.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>Why vaults are becoming the core primitive for onchain finance — not just yield products</li><li>What "institutional" means in the context of vault infrastructure</li><li>Why asynchronous execution is a safeguard, not a limitation</li><li>Onchain PM: managing one portfolio across multiple chains</li><li>Accounting tokens: how Centrifuge solves the settlement phase problem</li><li>The three stages of onchain finance: tokenization, onchain asset management, native origination</li><li>What higher risk-adjusted yields look like when RWAs and DeFi assets are combined in one vault </li></ul>LEARN MORE LEARN MORE<br />Dive deeper into institutional vaults with Centrifuge's technical series:<br /><ul><li>Centrifuge Expands Its Institutional Vault Stack with the Onchain Portfolio Manager → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/onchain-pm" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/onchain-pm</a></li><li>The Evolution of the Onchain Capital Stack → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/from-tokenization-to-vaults-onchain-capital-stack" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/from-tokenization-to-vaults-onchain-capital-stack</a></li><li>Beyond Instant Settlement: The Standard for Asynchronous Vaults → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/asynchronous-vaults" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/asynchronous-vaults</a></li><li>The Programmable Vault Stack: Customize Behavior Without Rewriting the Core → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/the-programmable-vault-stack" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/the-programmable-vault-stack</a></li></ul><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br /><ul><li>Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io </a></li><li>Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog </a></li><li>X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge </a></li><li>LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq </a></li><li>Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a></li></ul><br />]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>811</itunes:duration><itunes:keywords>assetmanagement,blockchain,centrifuge,composability,defi,fintech,infrastructure,institutional,lending,multichain,onchain,origination,rwa,tokenization,vaults</itunes:keywords><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/e1b67a22c9b4b5a0590e5bb7b09908ea.jpg"/><itunes:season>2</itunes:season><itunes:episode>5</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>The Chance to Engage Investors Like Never Before | Jonathan Casterline, Van Eck — S2 E4</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/the-chance-to-engage-investors-like-never-before-jonathan-casterline-van-eck-s2-e4--72850286</link><description><![CDATA[Jonathan Casterline, Product Manager for Digital Assets at Van Eck, discusses where the firm goes next in tokenization. Van Eck holds roughly $4 to $5 billion in digital assets, primarily within the ETF space.<br /><br />A year after launching their tokenized Treasury fund, the firm is working out how to move past experimentation and drive the institutional demand that the next generation of onchain products will need.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits with Jonathan to discuss the evolution of asset management, the challenges of distribution in a nascent regulatory landscape, and why tokenization's greatest value lies in direct investor engagement.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇 <br /><ul><li>Van Eck's move from ETFs into tokenization</li><li>Learnings from their first tokenized fund and how the industry evolves</li><li>Debunking "cheaper, faster, better": the intermediaries tokenization was supposed to remove are still in the room</li><li>The marketing problem: what you can actually say once a security is onchain</li><li>Standardization across private funds, wrappers, and custodial models</li><li>The relevance of direct investor engagement</li></ul><br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72850286</guid><pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2026 07:37:22 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72850286/podcast.mp3" length="13155022" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Jonathan Casterline, Product Manager for Digital Assets at Van Eck, discusses where the firm goes next in tokenization. Van Eck holds roughly $4 to $5 billion in digital assets, primarily within the ETF space.

A year after launching their tokenized...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Jonathan Casterline, Product Manager for Digital Assets at Van Eck, discusses where the firm goes next in tokenization. Van Eck holds roughly $4 to $5 billion in digital assets, primarily within the ETF space.<br /><br />A year after launching their tokenized Treasury fund, the firm is working out how to move past experimentation and drive the institutional demand that the next generation of onchain products will need.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits with Jonathan to discuss the evolution of asset management, the challenges of distribution in a nascent regulatory landscape, and why tokenization's greatest value lies in direct investor engagement.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇 <br /><ul><li>Van Eck's move from ETFs into tokenization</li><li>Learnings from their first tokenized fund and how the industry evolves</li><li>Debunking "cheaper, faster, better": the intermediaries tokenization was supposed to remove are still in the room</li><li>The marketing problem: what you can actually say once a security is onchain</li><li>Standardization across private funds, wrappers, and custodial models</li><li>The relevance of direct investor engagement</li></ul><br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>823</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ac5fa9d164be6808ceb7b8417e87a701.jpg"/><itunes:season>2</itunes:season><itunes:episode>4</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>RWAs Are Proven as Collateral — Now Comes Scale | Sebastian Pulido, Aave Labs — S2 E3</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/rwas-are-proven-as-collateral-now-comes-scale-sebastian-pulido-aave-labs-s2-e3--72578890</link><description><![CDATA[RWAs can be used as collateral onchain. That part is proven. Sebastian Pulido, Director, Institutional &amp; DeFi Business, at Aave Labs, argues the harder problem is what comes next: market structure, liquidation speed, and getting tokenized assets into the hands of investors who will never touch a Web3 wallet.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits down with Sebastian to break down how Aave Horizon is evolving, what Aave V4 unlocks for RWAs, and why the DeFi mullet — fintech front end, DeFi rails in the back — is the real distribution model.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>What Aave Horizon is and why it was built specifically for tokenized assets</li><li>Who is actually buying RWAs onchain today and what they want</li><li>The liquidation problem: why RWA settlement speed creates a unique challenge for DeFi lending markets</li><li>Aave V4's hub and spoke model and what it means for RWA collateral</li><li>Why fintech distribution — not DeFi apps — is the real unlock for institutional adoption</li><li>Sebastian's bet: 5-10x RWA TVL in the Aave ecosystem within a year</li></ul>STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72578890</guid><pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2026 11:23:15 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72578890/3_sebastian_pulido_spotify.mp3" length="15605099" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>RWAs can be used as collateral onchain. That part is proven. Sebastian Pulido, Director, Institutional &amp;amp; DeFi Business, at Aave Labs, argues the harder problem is what comes next: market structure, liquidation speed, and getting tokenized assets...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[RWAs can be used as collateral onchain. That part is proven. Sebastian Pulido, Director, Institutional &amp; DeFi Business, at Aave Labs, argues the harder problem is what comes next: market structure, liquidation speed, and getting tokenized assets into the hands of investors who will never touch a Web3 wallet.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits down with Sebastian to break down how Aave Horizon is evolving, what Aave V4 unlocks for RWAs, and why the DeFi mullet — fintech front end, DeFi rails in the back — is the real distribution model.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>What Aave Horizon is and why it was built specifically for tokenized assets</li><li>Who is actually buying RWAs onchain today and what they want</li><li>The liquidation problem: why RWA settlement speed creates a unique challenge for DeFi lending markets</li><li>Aave V4's hub and spoke model and what it means for RWA collateral</li><li>Why fintech distribution — not DeFi apps — is the real unlock for institutional adoption</li><li>Sebastian's bet: 5-10x RWA TVL in the Aave ecosystem within a year</li></ul>STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>976</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/6fb12bf588fd3982beff8ba33d11c6c3.jpg"/><itunes:season>2</itunes:season><itunes:episode>3</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>What It Takes to Underwrite 7 Billion People Onchain | Paul Frambot, Morpho — S2 E2</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/what-it-takes-to-underwrite-7-billion-people-onchain-paul-frambot-morpho-s2-e2--72293331</link><description><![CDATA[Credit markets are $200 trillion. Crypto-backed loans are $60 billion. Paul Frambot, co-founder and CEO of Morpho, argues DeFi has barely scratched the surface, and the missing piece isn't more crypto collateral, it's fixed-rate, fixed-term obligations.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits down with Paul to break down how Morpho is becoming the lending infrastructure layer underneath fintech, exchanges, and now RWA collateral.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇 <br />- How Morpho became the backend for the major exchanges' earn products <br />- Why RWAs are the fastest growing segment on Morpho <br />- S&amp;P 500 as collateral: the DeFi Mullet in practice <br />- Why variable rate lending is the biggest blocker for institutional adoption <br />- Morpho V2: fixed-rate, fixed-term markets and what that unlocks for RWAs <br />- Underwriting seven billion people — Paul's long-term vision for Morpho <br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72293331</guid><pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2026 08:00:02 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72293331/7_paul_frambot_podcast.mp3" length="26763840" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Credit markets are $200 trillion. Crypto-backed loans are $60 billion. Paul Frambot, co-founder and CEO of Morpho, argues DeFi has barely scratched the surface, and the missing piece isn't more crypto collateral, it's fixed-rate, fixed-term...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Credit markets are $200 trillion. Crypto-backed loans are $60 billion. Paul Frambot, co-founder and CEO of Morpho, argues DeFi has barely scratched the surface, and the missing piece isn't more crypto collateral, it's fixed-rate, fixed-term obligations.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge, sits down with Paul to break down how Morpho is becoming the lending infrastructure layer underneath fintech, exchanges, and now RWA collateral.<br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇 <br />- How Morpho became the backend for the major exchanges' earn products <br />- Why RWAs are the fastest growing segment on Morpho <br />- S&amp;P 500 as collateral: the DeFi Mullet in practice <br />- Why variable rate lending is the biggest blocker for institutional adoption <br />- Morpho V2: fixed-rate, fixed-term markets and what that unlocks for RWAs <br />- Underwriting seven billion people — Paul's long-term vision for Morpho <br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE<br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a><br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a><br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a><br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a><br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o</a>]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>670</itunes:duration><itunes:keywords>blockchain,borrowing,centrifuge,collateral,credit,defi,fintech,fixedrate,infrastructure,institutional,lending,morpho,onchain,rwa,tokenization</itunes:keywords><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/195fa5f2424081a6a8ee661f60100345.jpg"/><itunes:season>2</itunes:season><itunes:episode>2</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>From $1B to $25B: What Comes After Tokenization | Bhaji Illuminati, Centrifuge Labs — S2 E1</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/from-1b-to-25b-what-comes-after-tokenization-bhaji-illuminati-centrifuge-labs-s2-e1--72206160</link><description><![CDATA[The RWA market went from $1B to $25B in two years. Bhaji Illuminati, CEO of Centrifuge Labs, argues the industry is now asking a harder question: not how to tokenize assets, but how to make them actually useful.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge Labs, sits down with Bhaji to break down what composability means in practice: lending markets, stablecoin reserves, and DeFi protocols running on institutional-grade assets. <br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>Where the RWA market stands today and what comes after tokenization</li><li>Centrifuge's two issuance paths: blue chip asset managers vs. whitelabel infrastructure</li><li>deSPXA: why recreating the S&amp;P 500 at the asset level is different from wrapping an ETF</li><li>The dual access model: institutional fund shareholders and permissionless DeFi users, same asset</li><li>RWAs powering yield across the DeFi stack — Morpho, Aave Horizon, and what's next</li></ul><br />LEARN MORE <br />Centrifuge App → <a href="https://app.centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://app.centrifuge.io</a> <br />deSPXA → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/despxa-on-base" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/despxa-on-base</a> <br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE <br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a> <br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a> <br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a> <br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a> <br />Telegram → <a href="https://t.me/centrifuge_chat" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://t.me/centrifuge_chat</a> <br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o </a>]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72206160</guid><pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2026 11:35:04 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/72206160/6_bhaji_illuminati_podcast.mp3" length="27293760" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>The RWA market went from $1B to $25B in two years. Bhaji Illuminati, CEO of Centrifuge Labs, argues the industry is now asking a harder question: not how to tokenize assets, but how to make them actually useful.

Recorded live at the RWA Summit in...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[The RWA market went from $1B to $25B in two years. Bhaji Illuminati, CEO of Centrifuge Labs, argues the industry is now asking a harder question: not how to tokenize assets, but how to make them actually useful.<br /><br />Recorded live at the RWA Summit in Cannes for Season 2 of DeFi Drip, Graham Nelson, DeFi Product Lead at Centrifuge Labs, sits down with Bhaji to break down what composability means in practice: lending markets, stablecoin reserves, and DeFi protocols running on institutional-grade assets. <br /><br />IN THIS EPISODE 👇<br /><ul><li>Where the RWA market stands today and what comes after tokenization</li><li>Centrifuge's two issuance paths: blue chip asset managers vs. whitelabel infrastructure</li><li>deSPXA: why recreating the S&amp;P 500 at the asset level is different from wrapping an ETF</li><li>The dual access model: institutional fund shareholders and permissionless DeFi users, same asset</li><li>RWAs powering yield across the DeFi stack — Morpho, Aave Horizon, and what's next</li></ul><br />LEARN MORE <br />Centrifuge App → <a href="https://app.centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://app.centrifuge.io</a> <br />deSPXA → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog/despxa-on-base" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog/despxa-on-base</a> <br /><br />STAY CONNECTED WITH CENTRIFUGE <br />Website → <a href="https://centrifuge.io" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io</a> <br />Blog → <a href="https://centrifuge.io/blog" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://centrifuge.io/blog</a> <br />X (Twitter) → <a href="https://x.com/centrifuge" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://x.com/centrifuge</a> <br />LinkedIn → <a href="https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://linkedin.com/company/centrifugehq</a> <br />Telegram → <a href="https://t.me/centrifuge_chat" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://t.me/centrifuge_chat</a> <br />Newsletter → <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/19j_mbuUsTiyf84HcIsndswnup3o </a>]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>683</itunes:duration><itunes:keywords>blockchain,capitalmarkets,centrifuge,defi,defidrip,finance,tokenization,web3</itunes:keywords><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/fbdb69ce3f663ba9aa6c6206ddb1d704.jpg"/><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>Why the Token Has to Hold Value Without the Issuer | Martin Quensel, Anemoy — S1 E8</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/why-the-token-has-to-hold-value-without-the-issuer-martin-quensel-anemoy-s1-e8--58338921</link><description><![CDATA[Most onchain treasury products in 2024 give you exposure to an intermediary, not the asset itself. Martin Quensel, founder of Anemoy and co-founder of Centrifuge, is building it differently, the token is the fund share, backed directly by T-bills, issued under BVI regulation. In this episode he explains why institutional structure is what separates real adoption from speculation, and why most offerings aren't asking the right questions yet.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/58338921</guid><pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2024 17:21:53 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/58338921/defi_drip_8_full_length_audio.mp3" length="59624640" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Most onchain treasury products in 2024 give you exposure to an intermediary, not the asset itself. Martin Quensel, founder of Anemoy and co-founder of Centrifuge, is building it differently, the token is the fund share, backed directly by T-bills,...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Most onchain treasury products in 2024 give you exposure to an intermediary, not the asset itself. Martin Quensel, founder of Anemoy and co-founder of Centrifuge, is building it differently, the token is the fund share, backed directly by T-bills, issued under BVI regulation. In this episode he explains why institutional structure is what separates real adoption from speculation, and why most offerings aren't asking the right questions yet.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>2485</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>8</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>The Real Barrier to Tokenized Assets Isn't Demand, It's Distribution | Prashant Kher, EY — S1 E7</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/the-real-barrier-to-tokenized-assets-isn-t-demand-it-s-distribution-prashant-kher-ey-s1-e7--57871911</link><description><![CDATA[EY's 2023 research showed institutional and high-net-worth investors were already planning significant allocations to tokenized assets. Prashant Kher, who led that research, argues the industry was solving the wrong problem — tokenizing assets was never the hard part. Getting them into investors' hands through the right channels was.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/57871911</guid><pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2023 17:17:43 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/57871911/defi_drip_7_ey_audio_mp4.mp3" length="29037639" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>EY's 2023 research showed institutional and high-net-worth investors were already planning significant allocations to tokenized assets. Prashant Kher, who led that research, argues the industry was solving the wrong problem — tokenizing assets was...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[EY's 2023 research showed institutional and high-net-worth investors were already planning significant allocations to tokenized assets. Prashant Kher, who led that research, argues the industry was solving the wrong problem — tokenizing assets was never the hard part. Getting them into investors' hands through the right channels was.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>1815</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>7</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>Why DeFi Has Everything It Needs to Out-Compete TradFi | Johannes Moormann, Safe — S1 E6</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/why-defi-has-everything-it-needs-to-out-compete-tradfi-johannes-moormann-safe-s1-e6--56338023</link><description><![CDATA[Safe secures more onchain assets than almost any other protocol, but Johannes Moormann's argument in this episode isn't about custody, it's about adoption. DeFi already has the conceptual infrastructure to out-compete traditional finance. What it's missing is a way out of the crypto bubble, and account abstraction is one of the tools that gets it there.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56338023</guid><pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2023 15:03:35 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56338023/defi_drip_6.mp3" length="58301568" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Safe secures more onchain assets than almost any other protocol, but Johannes Moormann's argument in this episode isn't about custody, it's about adoption. DeFi already has the conceptual infrastructure to out-compete traditional finance. What it's...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Safe secures more onchain assets than almost any other protocol, but Johannes Moormann's argument in this episode isn't about custody, it's about adoption. DeFi already has the conceptual infrastructure to out-compete traditional finance. What it's missing is a way out of the crypto bubble, and account abstraction is one of the tools that gets it there.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>2430</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>6</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>The Case for Private Credit Onchain | Jake Lynch, L1 Digital — S1 E5</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/the-case-for-private-credit-onchain-jake-lynch-l1-digital-s1-e5--56337966</link><description><![CDATA[Public credit is already one of the most efficient, accessible markets in the world. Jake Lynch, investment researcher at L1 Digital, argues that putting government bonds onchain doesn't make them better — it just gives people new collateral to lever up against. Private credit is where the real opportunity is: fragmented, inaccessible to most investors, and exactly the kind of market blockchain can fix. In this episode he also walks through how DeFi builds credit markets from scratch — and why lending is the heart of any functioning economy.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56337966</guid><pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:30:43 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56337966/defi_drip_5.mp3" length="80493696" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Public credit is already one of the most efficient, accessible markets in the world. Jake Lynch, investment researcher at L1 Digital, argues that putting government bonds onchain doesn't make them better — it just gives people new collateral to lever...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Public credit is already one of the most efficient, accessible markets in the world. Jake Lynch, investment researcher at L1 Digital, argues that putting government bonds onchain doesn't make them better — it just gives people new collateral to lever up against. Private credit is where the real opportunity is: fragmented, inaccessible to most investors, and exactly the kind of market blockchain can fix. In this episode he also walks through how DeFi builds credit markets from scratch — and why lending is the heart of any functioning economy.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>3354</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>5</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>Eventually, DeFi Is Just Finance | Facu Peláez, karpatkey — S1 E4</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/eventually-defi-is-just-finance-facu-pelaez-karpatkey-s1-e4--56338006</link><description><![CDATA[In 2023, most DAO treasuries were sitting on volatile governance tokens with no yield strategy and no risk framework. Facu Peláez, Business Development Manager at karpatkey, was already building the infrastructure to fix that — non-custodial treasury management, 32-parameter risk monitoring, and emergency protocols for when things go wrong onchain. In this episode he makes the case that real-world assets will become the dominant option in DAO portfolios, and that the boundary between DeFi and traditional finance will eventually stop mattering altogether.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56338006</guid><pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:30:24 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56338006/defi_drip_4.mp3" length="40705344" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>In 2023, most DAO treasuries were sitting on volatile governance tokens with no yield strategy and no risk framework. Facu Peláez, Business Development Manager at karpatkey, was already building the infrastructure to fix that — non-custodial treasury...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[In 2023, most DAO treasuries were sitting on volatile governance tokens with no yield strategy and no risk framework. Facu Peláez, Business Development Manager at karpatkey, was already building the infrastructure to fix that — non-custodial treasury management, 32-parameter risk monitoring, and emergency protocols for when things go wrong onchain. In this episode he makes the case that real-world assets will become the dominant option in DAO portfolios, and that the boundary between DeFi and traditional finance will eventually stop mattering altogether.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>1697</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>4</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>A 25-Year TradFi Veteran's Case for RWAs | Chuck Mounts, S&amp;P Global — S1 E3</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/a-25-year-tradfi-veteran-s-case-for-rwas-chuck-mounts-s-p-global-s1-e3--56337990</link><description><![CDATA[Chuck Mounts spent 25 years covering global banks and sovereigns at Goldman Sachs, UBS, and Merrill Lynch before becoming Chief DeFi Officer at S&amp;P Global. In this 2023 episode he maps out what he sees as the difference between DeFi's evolution phase — reducing friction, streamlining execution — and the revolution that follows: new pools of capital, democratized access, and real-world income onchain at a scale traditional markets have never seen. The end game, in his view, is not a question of if but when.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56337990</guid><pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:30:09 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56337990/defi_drip_3.mp3" length="67710528" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>Chuck Mounts spent 25 years covering global banks and sovereigns at Goldman Sachs, UBS, and Merrill Lynch before becoming Chief DeFi Officer at S&amp;amp;P Global. In this 2023 episode he maps out what he sees as the difference between DeFi's evolution...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[Chuck Mounts spent 25 years covering global banks and sovereigns at Goldman Sachs, UBS, and Merrill Lynch before becoming Chief DeFi Officer at S&amp;P Global. In this 2023 episode he maps out what he sees as the difference between DeFi's evolution phase — reducing friction, streamlining execution — and the revolution that follows: new pools of capital, democratized access, and real-world income onchain at a scale traditional markets have never seen. The end game, in his view, is not a question of if but when.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>2822</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>3</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>Without Real Assets, DeFi Has No Point | Sébastien Derivaux, MakerDAO — S1 E2</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/without-real-assets-defi-has-no-point-sebastien-derivaux-makerdao-s1-e2--56337989</link><description><![CDATA[In 2022, when real-world asset allocations in DeFi were still measured in millions, Sébastien Derivaux was already making the case that a financial system without real assets is just speculation. In this episode he explains how MakerDAO was approaching that problem, and makes his bet for what would finally bring institutions onchain — a yield curve in DeFi.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56337989</guid><pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:29:49 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56337989/defi_drip_2.mp3" length="45351360" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>In 2022, when real-world asset allocations in DeFi were still measured in millions, Sébastien Derivaux was already making the case that a financial system without real assets is just speculation. In this episode he explains how MakerDAO was...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[In 2022, when real-world asset allocations in DeFi were still measured in millions, Sébastien Derivaux was already making the case that a financial system without real assets is just speculation. In this episode he explains how MakerDAO was approaching that problem, and makes his bet for what would finally bring institutions onchain — a yield curve in DeFi.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>1890</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>2</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item><item><title>Why Structured Credit Is DeFi's Next Frontier | Kevin Miao, BlockTower — S1 E1</title><link>https://www.spreaker.com/episode/why-structured-credit-is-defi-s-next-frontier-kevin-miao-blocktower-s1-e1--56337965</link><description><![CDATA[In DeFi's first episode, recorded in 2022 when real-world asset lending was still fringe, Kevin Miao made the case that DeFi had already built the rails for structured credit without realizing it. The same if-then logic that routes payments through 15 counterparties in traditional securitization — servicers, calculation agents, paying agents, DTC — is exactly what smart contracts do natively, at zero marginal cost. In this episode he explains why BlockTower bet early on bringing institutional credit onchain, and why the technology is both further along and further away than most people think.]]></description><guid isPermaLink="false">https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56337965</guid><pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:27:53 +0000</pubDate><enclosure url="https://api.spreaker.com/download/episode/56337965/defi_drip_1.mp3" length="58036608" type="audio/mpeg"/><itunes:author>Centrifuge</itunes:author><itunes:subtitle>In DeFi's first episode, recorded in 2022 when real-world asset lending was still fringe, Kevin Miao made the case that DeFi had already built the rails for structured credit without realizing it. The same if-then logic that routes payments through 15...</itunes:subtitle><itunes:summary><![CDATA[In DeFi's first episode, recorded in 2022 when real-world asset lending was still fringe, Kevin Miao made the case that DeFi had already built the rails for structured credit without realizing it. The same if-then logic that routes payments through 15 counterparties in traditional securitization — servicers, calculation agents, paying agents, DTC — is exactly what smart contracts do natively, at zero marginal cost. In this episode he explains why BlockTower bet early on bringing institutional credit onchain, and why the technology is both further along and further away than most people think.]]></itunes:summary><itunes:duration>2419</itunes:duration><itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit><itunes:image href="https://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/ebd24249577aa847559be00eb617f087.jpg"/><itunes:season>1</itunes:season><itunes:episode>1</itunes:episode><itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType></item></channel></rss>
