http://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand]]>enTrue CrimeCopyright Studio BOTH/ANDhttps://d3wo5wojvuv7l.cloudfront.net/t_rss_itunes_square_1400/images.spreaker.com/original/5af1274cb88d296f11d5ecd3935f6dcb.jpghttp://www.pactpodcast.comThu, 09 Jul 2026 08:10:05 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDStudio BOTH/ANDfeeds@spreaker.comIt started with the 2014 disappearance of an Upper Michigan man named Chris Regan. The two-year investigation into his disappearance would take authorities on a strange journey into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand]]>falseserialhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
Launches: 3/15/23

The Pact originally aired as season 3 of True Crime Bullsh**.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/52813949Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:55:30 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDIt started with the 2014 disappearance of an Upper Michigan man named Chris Regan. The two-year investigation into his disappearance would take authorities on a strange journey into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial...
Launches: 3/15/23

The Pact originally aired as season 3 of True Crime Bullsh**.]]>80kellycochran,michigan,truecrimefalse1trailerhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music:
Chris Zabriskie: Last Night I Dreamt I Saw True Love in Your Eyes
Sergey Cheremisinov: Sleepers
Sergey Cheremisinov: Comets and Sparks Whithe: Consequences DOOMSQUAD: Ice Storm
My Brightest Diamond: Lover Killer

Resources:
• FOIA files
• Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201805/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-female-psychopaths
• The Iron Mountain Daily News: https://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/02/missing-or-dead/
• Dead North, Investigation Discovery
• The Iron County Reporter
















]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/52830189Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDOn the night of Kelly Cochran's wedding, her husband Jason forced her to agree to a pact: That if she ever cheated on him, she'd have to kill the man she cheated with. That pact would result in the deaths of at least 9 people. This is a Studio...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music:
Chris Zabriskie: Last Night I Dreamt I Saw True Love in Your Eyes
Sergey Cheremisinov: Sleepers
Sergey Cheremisinov: Comets and Sparks Whithe: Consequences DOOMSQUAD: Ice Storm
My Brightest Diamond: Lover Killer

Resources:
• FOIA files
• Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201805/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-female-psychopaths
• The Iron Mountain Daily News: https://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/02/missing-or-dead/
• Dead North, Investigation Discovery
• The Iron County Reporter
















]]>2323false11fullhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and The Bird & The Bee.

Sources: Dead North, Psychology Today, and Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53254993Wed, 22 Mar 2023 08:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDPhone records, discrepancies in Kelly Cochran's statements, search warrants, and several interviews lead to some shocking revelations surrounding Chris Regan's disappearance. Plus, criminal psychologist, Joni Johnston, discusses female psychopaths....
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and The Bird & The Bee.

Sources: Dead North, Psychology Today, and Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps]]>2390chrisregan,kellycochran,truecrimefalse12fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/3-baby-bird--53257506
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and Anna Calvi
Sources: Dead North and The Iron County Reporter]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53257506Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDInvestigators and psychologists try to get to the bottom of which Cochran was abusing the other. Chief Frizzo works with the FBI and an unlikely informant to coerce Kelly into confessing. And Kelly hits the road, again. This is a Studio BOTH/AND...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and Anna Calvi
Sources: Dead North and The Iron County Reporter]]>2048false13fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/4-two-women--53445642
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: The Iron Mountain Daily News, Michigan Live, U.P. Matters, The Iron County Reporter, Dead North.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53445642Wed, 05 Apr 2023 08:00:15 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDKelly discusses a third murder. Josh takes a look at the two women at the center of this case, and how their lives were affected and intertwined by it. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi For an ad-free...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: The Iron Mountain Daily News, Michigan Live, U.P. Matters, The Iron County Reporter, Dead North.]]>2605false14fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/5-quack-quack-oink-oink--53454252
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Chris Zabriskie, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, The Iron County Reporter, and Dead North.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53454252Wed, 12 Apr 2023 08:00:04 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDThe trial of Kelly Cochran reveals shocking information about Kelly and Jason, discerns Kelly's truth from lies, and begins painting a clear picture of the Cochrans' killing spree. Plus, we take a closer look at Jason's manuscript. This is a Studio...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Chris Zabriskie, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, The Iron County Reporter, and Dead North.]]>2554false15fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/6-mississippi-street--53454395
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kevin MacLeod, and Jenny Wilson.

Sources: NAMUS, The Charley Project, Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, and The Iron County Reporter.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53454395Wed, 19 Apr 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDThe investigation into Jason and Kelly Cochran's other crimes begins with a look into their time in Indiana; revealing some strange and shocking connections. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi For an ad-free...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kevin MacLeod, and Jenny Wilson.

Sources: NAMUS, The Charley Project, Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, and The Iron County Reporter.]]>1752false16fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/7-laura--53455199Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Chris Zabriskie, LaBon]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53455199Wed, 26 Apr 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDShe may be the only living person to truly know Kelly Cochran. Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi...Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Chris Zabriskie, LaBon]]>5665false17fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/8-rotten-love--53721739
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kyle Preston, and LEVY.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53721739Wed, 03 May 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDIf Laura Frizzo knows Kelly best, then Walt Ammerman probably knew Jason best. We get to know Jason through an interview with friend and eventual informant, Walt. Then we explore Kelly's Facebook and its odd parallels to her crimes, and an unsolved...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kyle Preston, and LEVY.]]>2596false18fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/9-inside--53871459Next episode: 24 May 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, The Inner Shore]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53871459Wed, 17 May 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDJosh goes inside the investigation into Kelly Cochran, revealing new information, new links, and a possible timeline. And the investigation itself raises some important questions about what authorities do and don't know. Next episode: 24 May 2023...Next episode: 24 May 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, The Inner Shore]]>1680false19fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/10-the-park--53871551Next episode: 31 May 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Ian Alex Mac, Stacxk, and Kevin MacLeod.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53871551Wed, 24 May 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDThe Kelly Cochran case files arrive, opening a Pandora's Box of depravity. And during an encounter following Jason's death, Kelly shows Hobart police just how calculating and unhinged she truly is. Next episode: 31 May 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND...Next episode: 31 May 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Ian Alex Mac, Stacxk, and Kevin MacLeod.]]>2347false110fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/11-camping--53871812Next Episode: 14 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Kyle Preston, and Radical Face.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53871812Wed, 31 May 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDKelly's brother, Colton, shares some revealing and shocking information with investigators. Kelly discusses her first three murders. And patterns begin to emerge. Next Episode: 14 June 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com /...Next Episode: 14 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Kyle Preston, and Radical Face.]]>2341false111fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/12-playing-games--53872221Next Episode: 21 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle Kaszuba.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53872221Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDKelly's lists of 32 alleged victims lead investigators to find some interesting evidence in Illinois and Minnesota. And Josh begins making sense of Kelly's lists (and lies). Next Episode: 21 June 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:...Next Episode: 21 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Research assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle Kaszuba.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.]]>2064false112fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/13-the-lists--53872324Next Episode: 28 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Research assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle Kaszuba

Resources include: NAMUS, The Charley Project, boatman.com.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/53872324Wed, 21 Jun 2023 08:00:01 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDJosh deep-dives the lists of Kelly's and Jason's alleged 32 victims, with some shocking revelations and a whole lot of WTF moments. Next Episode: 28 June 2023 This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi For an ad-free...Next Episode: 28 June 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Research assistance by Becca Cline and Michelle Kaszuba

Resources include: NAMUS, The Charley Project, boatman.com.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere.]]>2183false113fullhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Music by William Hellfire, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/54446814Wed, 28 Jun 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDAn exploration into Kelly Cochran's practice of avoidance, her list of trophies, and consistencies in her wildly varying stories, leads to some pretty solid conclusions about Kelly and Jason. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Music by William Hellfire, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Radical Face.]]>2495false114fullhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Resources include: The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, NAMUS, The Charley Project, and Dr. Joni Johnston.

Music by William Hellfire, LaBon, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Empress Of.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/54446893Wed, 12 Jul 2023 08:00:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDAn examination of the disparities surrounding the portrayals of men and women in crime, and how Kelly Cochran exploited them. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi For an ad-free experience or to support the...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Resources include: The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, NAMUS, The Charley Project, and Dr. Joni Johnston.

Music by William Hellfire, LaBon, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, and Empress Of.]]>1951false115fullhttp://www.pactpodcast.com
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Resources include: RAINN.org, Psychology Today, and Dr. Joni Johnston.

Music by William Hellfire, Stacxk, Kyle Preston, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Josef van Wissem, and Chromatics.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/54446923Wed, 19 Jul 2023 08:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDA look at how sexual abuse may have contributed to Kelly Cochran's life and crimes; and how it may play a role in deciphering her many stories. This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi For an ad-free experience or...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Resources include: RAINN.org, Psychology Today, and Dr. Joni Johnston.

Music by William Hellfire, Stacxk, Kyle Preston, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Josef van Wissem, and Chromatics.]]>2296false116fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/17-a-boreal-feast--56223936
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Tip by Olivia.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, and Odetta Hartman.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56223936Wed, 26 Jul 2023 08:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDAn examination of the strange relationship and power dynamics between Kelly Cochran and Detective Ogden, reveals new patterns in Kelly's stories and behaviors. Plus, a cumulative overview of what we've learned about Kelly, helps construct an MO and...
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.
Tip by Olivia.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, and Odetta Hartman.]]>1652falsefullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/studio-both-and-presents-true-crime-bullsh--56338510
www.bothand.fyi
www.truecrimebullshit.com
www.patreon.com/studiobothand]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56338510Tue, 01 Aug 2023 17:43:31 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDIf you enjoyed The Pact, check out host Josh Hallmark's other investigative deep dive into serial killer Israel Keyes: True Crime Bullsh** www.bothand.fyi www.truecrimebullshit.com www.patreon.com/studiobothand
www.bothand.fyi
www.truecrimebullshit.com
www.patreon.com/studiobothand]]>43falsefullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/18-both-and--56338797
Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56338797Wed, 02 Aug 2023 08:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDThe finale. Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. Research assistance by Becca Cline. Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.
Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Research assistance by Becca Cline.

Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Lee Rosevere, Whithe, and Stacxk.]]>2377false118fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/tour-announcement--56557451
The True Crime & Paranormal Festival in Austin, Texas (8/26-8/27)
www.truecrimepodcastfestival.com

A casual Happy Hour in Tampa, Florida (9/10)
www.bothand.fyi/tour

Obsessed Fest in Dallas, Texas (10/20-10/22)
www.obsessedfest.com

& Coming Soon:
A Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party in North Adams, Mass.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/56557451Tue, 22 Aug 2023 17:47:09 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDJosh is heading out on the road. Catch him at: The True Crime & Paranormal Festival in Austin, Texas (8/26-8/27) www.truecrimepodcastfestival.com A casual Happy Hour in Tampa, Florida (9/10) www.bothand.fyi/tour Obsessed Fest in Dallas, Texas...
The True Crime & Paranormal Festival in Austin, Texas (8/26-8/27)
www.truecrimepodcastfestival.com

A casual Happy Hour in Tampa, Florida (9/10)
www.bothand.fyi/tour

Obsessed Fest in Dallas, Texas (10/20-10/22)
www.obsessedfest.com

& Coming Soon:
A Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party in North Adams, Mass.]]>53falsebonushttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/check-out-my-newest-podcast-unsafe-spaces--57296471
In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora’s Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida’s gay community; and the two men who could be responsible for all of them. Not to mention cold cases of missing gay and murdered men in Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and beyond.

Check out Unsafe Spaces: www.UnsafeSpacesPodcast.com
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/57296471Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDUnsafe Spaces is an investigative, serialized true crime podcast that explores the crimes that take place in the places we’re supposed to feel safest. In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on...
In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora’s Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida’s gay community; and the two men who could be responsible for all of them. Not to mention cold cases of missing gay and murdered men in Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and beyond.

Check out Unsafe Spaces: www.UnsafeSpacesPodcast.com
]]>675falsetrailerhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/studio-both-and-news-announcements--58504637
This month's news:
• New tours and events
• Unsafe Spaces update
• The Karen & Ellen Letters update
• True Crime Bullsh** update
• New projects
• Our Americana update
• Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October
• What's happening on Patreon this month

Links:
• True Crime Podcast Festival, use promo code JOSH for 15% off
• Studio BOTH/AND Patreon]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/58504637Wed, 31 Jan 2024 09:00:03 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDCatch up on all things Studio BOTH/AND for the month of February (and beyond). This month's news: • New tours and events • Unsafe Spaces update • The Karen & Ellen Letters update • True Crime Bullsh** update • New projects • Our Americana...
This month's news:
• New tours and events
• Unsafe Spaces update
• The Karen & Ellen Letters update
• True Crime Bullsh** update
• New projects
• Our Americana update
• Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October
• What's happening on Patreon this month

Links:
• True Crime Podcast Festival, use promo code JOSH for 15% off
• Studio BOTH/AND Patreon]]>224falsebonushttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-let-s-violate-the-world--63420636
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Kaz.
Featuring: Eric Schmidt and Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential).

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• Uncovered
• Clearwater Police Department
• The Tampa Bay Times: 1 2 3

Music by: Colour Book, Yehezkel Rez, Roniit, Raz Burg, Raz Burg, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Josef Salvat
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420636Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:51:07 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDOn December 22, 2003, two gay men were reported missing to Tampa PD. The investigations into their disappearances, would open a Pandora's Box that would force the police, the media, and society to examine how their actions and negligence led to some...
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Kaz.
Featuring: Eric Schmidt and Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential).

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• Uncovered
• Clearwater Police Department
• The Tampa Bay Times: 1 2 3

Music by: Colour Book, Yehezkel Rez, Roniit, Raz Burg, Raz Burg, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Josef Salvat
]]>2574false21fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-i-m-gay-i-m-f-cked--63420678

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
With additional research by: Kaz
Featuring: Jason Leroy (The Binge Movie Podcast)


This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand


Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• Uncovered
• The Tampa Bay Times
• Newspapers.com
• The Albuquerque Journal
• Amnesty International


Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Yotam Agam, Theatre of Delays, Grisly Bill, and Benjamin Esterlis
Featured music by: Jacob Fossum
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420678Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:53:07 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDSteven Lorenzo comes to the forefront of Tampa PD's investigation into the disappearance of Jason Galehouse and the death of Michael Wachholtz. Lorenzo's criminal history leads to a sting operation that ends in a very haunting search of his home, and...

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
With additional research by: Kaz
Featuring: Jason Leroy (The Binge Movie Podcast)


This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand


Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• Uncovered
• The Tampa Bay Times
• Newspapers.com
• The Albuquerque Journal
• Amnesty International


Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Yotam Agam, Theatre of Delays, Grisly Bill, and Benjamin Esterlis
Featured music by: Jacob Fossum
]]>2180false22fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-it-was-scott--63420710
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
With additional research by: Kaz
Audio editing by Darron Wood (The Defense Diaries podcast)

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• The Tampa Bay Times: Which one is the real Scott?
• Newspapers.com
• CNN.com
• Equity Florida Action, Inc

Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Circles, The Bows, Spiriturn, and Colour Book
Featured music by: Owen Pallett
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420710Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:54:52 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDSteven Lorenzo's friend and accomplice is identified as Scott Schweickert. And the pair's history is revealed through AOL instant messages and a mutual friend. Tampa PD investigate multiple assaults within the Tampa gay community, leading to an arrest...
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
With additional research by: Kaz
Audio editing by Darron Wood (The Defense Diaries podcast)

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• The Tampa Bay Times: Which one is the real Scott?
• Newspapers.com
• CNN.com
• Equity Florida Action, Inc

Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Circles, The Bows, Spiriturn, and Colour Book
Featured music by: Owen Pallett
]]>2417false23fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-it-was-steven--63420716
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark 
With additional research by: Kaz

Featuring:
• Dr. Scott from LA Not So Confidential
• Drew Mackie from Gayest Episode Ever

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Evolving Scapes, Grisly Bill, Light in the Shadow, Hynogogia, Yehezkel Raz, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Chris Garneau
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420716Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:56:40 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDScott Schweickert's house is searched, disturbing photos are found on Steven Lorenzo's computer, more Lorenzo assault victims come forward, someone confesses, and another gay man goes missing. This episode was written, researched, edited, and...
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark 
With additional research by: Kaz

Featuring:
• Dr. Scott from LA Not So Confidential
• Drew Mackie from Gayest Episode Ever

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Evolving Scapes, Grisly Bill, Light in the Shadow, Hynogogia, Yehezkel Raz, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Chris Garneau
]]>2269false24fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-open-secret--63420723Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Resources:

• Fox 13 Tampa Bay: https://www.fox13news.com/news/nothing-behind-his-eyes-his-face-was-contorted-victim-of-steven-lorenzo-woke-up-panicked
• The Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2006/01/28/defiant-lorenzo-gets-200-years/
• The Netflix documentary Victim/Suspect: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288561

Featuring:
Albert Perkins

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and Ahimsa
Featured music by: Rufus Wainwright
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420723Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:58:35 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDAt trial and at sentencing, Lorenzo's many surviving victims testified against him, including the impactful statements made by Albert Perkins, who Lorenzo kidnapped and assaulted in February of 2000. The testimony and eventual plea deals made by both...Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Resources:

• Fox 13 Tampa Bay: https://www.fox13news.com/news/nothing-behind-his-eyes-his-face-was-contorted-victim-of-steven-lorenzo-woke-up-panicked
• The Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2006/01/28/defiant-lorenzo-gets-200-years/
• The Netflix documentary Victim/Suspect: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288561

Featuring:
Albert Perkins

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and Ahimsa
Featured music by: Rufus Wainwright
]]>3648false25fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-tacit-permissions-behavioral-drifts--63420758Plus: The Warrior gene, behavioral drift, Kanye West, Anita Bryant, and more.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Featuring: Dr. Scott from the LA Not So Confidential podcast

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Color Book, Yehezkel Raz, Adi Goldstein, Infinity Lab, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Perfume Genius
]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420758Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:03:05 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDTo better understand Lorenzo and Schweickert, their possible other crimes, and their MOs and victimology, Josh chats with clinical psychologist Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential) about killers who work in pairs, BDSM, Antisocial Personality Disorder,...Plus: The Warrior gene, behavioral drift, Kanye West, Anita Bryant, and more.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Featuring: Dr. Scott from the LA Not So Confidential podcast

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Color Book, Yehezkel Raz, Adi Goldstein, Infinity Lab, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Perfume Genius
]]>4640false26fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/unsafe-spaces-oh-god--63420790
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Featuring:
Eric Carter-Landin from True Consequences and Crimelines & Consequences
Albert Perkins

Resources:

• Religiosity and Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men: A Meta-Analysis by Bernard E. Whitley Jr.
• How Religiosity Shapes Rejection of Homosexuals Across the Globe by Dirk-Jan Janssen
• The New York Times
• The Harvard Political Review
• The National Institutes for Health
• The National Institues for Health
• The American Psychological Association
• The Harvard University Press
• The Hill
• The Trevor Project
• The Human Rights Campaign

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Adi Goldstein
Featured music by: Frank Ocean]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/63420790Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:04:54 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDSeason finale. This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark Featuring: Eric Carter-Landin from https://www.trueconsequences.com and https://www.basementfortproductions.com Albert Perkins Resources: -...
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Featuring:
Eric Carter-Landin from True Consequences and Crimelines & Consequences
Albert Perkins

Resources:

• Religiosity and Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men: A Meta-Analysis by Bernard E. Whitley Jr.
• How Religiosity Shapes Rejection of Homosexuals Across the Globe by Dirk-Jan Janssen
• The New York Times
• The Harvard Political Review
• The National Institutes for Health
• The National Institues for Health
• The American Psychological Association
• The Harvard University Press
• The Hill
• The Trevor Project
• The Human Rights Campaign

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Adi Goldstein
Featured music by: Frank Ocean]]>1694false27fullhttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/retrospective-1-the-ignition--72373198
We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72373198Fri, 05 Jun 2026 17:20:36 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDTo celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various...
We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027]]>5134false31bonushttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/retrospective-2-investigations--72870812
This is parts one and two of The Karen & Ellen Letters, Josh's first full-fledged investigation.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

Cast:
Sara Stapleton as Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Matt Peelen as Rob

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.]]>https://api.spreaker.com/episode/72870812Thu, 09 Jul 2026 07:55:02 +0000Studio BOTH/ANDRetrospective 2 takes us to the origin of the investigation; where Josh's interest in storytelling evolved into his obsession of needing to know everything. And it started in a surprising place: a bound book of correspondence between two teenage girls...
This is parts one and two of The Karen & Ellen Letters, Josh's first full-fledged investigation.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

Cast:
Sara Stapleton as Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Matt Peelen as Rob

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.]]>3518false32bonus