In this conversation, BT Wallace and Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon delve into the dark recesses of human nature, exploring the psyche of notorious criminals, particularly focusing on John Wayne Gacy. They discuss the characteristics of psychopathy, the manipulative behaviors of Gacy, and the impact of childhood trauma on his development. The conversation highlights the complexities of evil and the blurred lines between normalcy and monstrosity. In this conversation, Brandon Wallace delves into the psyche of John Wayne Gacy, exploring his manipulative behavior, victim selection, and the duality of his public persona versus his criminal actions. The discussion highlights Gacy's control over his victims, his lack of remorse, and the psychological factors that may have influenced his actions. Wallace also reflects on the broader themes of narcissism and ambition among serial killers, as well as the importance of understanding the fantasy world that these individuals inhabit. The conversation concludes with insights into the memoir approach taken in Smalldon's book, emphasizing personal experiences with infamous killers.Curious about what it’s like to sit face-to-face with one of America’s most infamous serial killers? Download a free chapter from That Beast Was Not Me and dive into Dr. Smalldon’s unforgettable first encounter with John Wayne Gacy on death row. This isn’t sensationalized true crime—it’s an unfiltered look at the thin line between normalcy and monstrosity, told through the eyes of a forensic psychology student.

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